Kenny's proposals a return to the 1930s, says O'Toole

SEANAD REPORT:THE LEADER of Fine Gael was riding the crest of a populist wave to create a parliamentary system that would resemble those which had existed in Italy and Germany during the recessionary l930s, Joe O'Toole (Ind) warned.

Mr O’Toole urged Fine Gael Senators to pay even greater attention to their leader’s proposals on changes to the composition of the Dáil than to his controversial approach to the Seanad, which could see its demise.

Strong criticisms of the Kenny initiative were voiced from the Government, Labour and Independent benches during a stormy session which culminated in the ordering of Fine Gael Senator Fidelma Healy Eames from the chamber. “I’ll happily leave the House, because this House isn’t working,” said Ms Healy Eames.

Fine Gael leader in the House Frances Fitzgerald said the reform agenda put forward by Mr Kenny would open up the political system. The paucity of real business that had been given to them this week demonstrated the way the House was treated by the Government.

Mr O’Toole said if anything needed to be reconsidered, it was the proposal regarding the taking of power from the people and giving it to party leaderships, reducing the nature and the centre of political democracy. This had to be resisted. “I believe that what we heard over the weekend is a regurgitation of the legacy that we thought we had left behind us with O’Duffy in the 1930s. This is going backwards and I hope that every Fine Gael person who believes in democracy would examine, analyse and look at the consequences of what is being proposed.”

The number of elected TDs was to be cut, in effect, by 40. “So, we now look at a leader of the Opposition riding a populist crest in order to peel back the layers of democracy, getting rid of one House and reducing the other House . . . I think it is appalling.”

Ivana Bacik(Lab) dismissed what she termed Mr Kenny's sudden conversion to abolition of the Upper House as a bizarre, if not a rather pathetic attempt to grab headlines.

Dan Boyle(Greens), deputy Government leader in the House, said he believed a Bill would be available by Christmas in relation to Seanad reform. It would deal only with the short-term legislative changes that could be made.

Mr Boyle said such a Bill would work only if it dealt with the university and the vocational panels. The renewed programme for government would see the Electoral Commission reporting within 12 months on the election of the Seanad. A new approach would necessitate a constitutional referendum. In the meantime, the Opposition party leader should submit a Bill showing what abolishing the Seanad or reforming it would look like.

David Norris(Ind) said that at the age of 65 he was glad he had lived long enough to see turkeys voting for Christmas. Enda Kenny had decided to "sacrifice the Seanad unilaterally on the altar of his own political ambition in order to expiate principally the sins of the Dáil". That was bad enough, Mr Norris continued, "but there was the dishonesty of the statements . . . when he said he announced this in the MacGill summer school. He was publicly confronted with the record, and it shows that he had not.

“The notion that we are going to solve the economic problems of this country by cutting back Seanad Éireann would be laughable, if it were not so serious to think that a man so financially illiterate might be placed in charge of the destiny of this country.” Mr Norris refused to heed calls by angry Fine Gael members that he withdraw this remark.

Eugene Regan(FG) said it was with regret that he spoke about the proposal to abolish the Seanad, but he thought it had come to this because of the way the House was treated by the Government.

Paschal Donohoe(FG) said the Seanad had been largely the creation of Fianna Fáil. Why was it so wrong to ask the people if they wanted it to continue?

Ann Ormonde(FF) said that Mr Kenny had jolted them into getting on with reform.

Paudie Coffey(FG) said he got very frustrated when he looked at the business ordered for yesterday: postal codes and sea beds.

John Hanafin(FF) said an aspect of the Fine Gael proposal that seemed to have been overlooked was that Oireachtas committees should have quasi-judicial functions. He believed that this was a very serious attempt to undermine the judiciary.

Rónán Mullen(Ind) said Mr Kenny's "Gubu" proposal had come about because of a race to the bottom among party leaders in terms of courting public support. It was a grasp for the low-hanging fruit. He complimented Fine Gael Senators for their unity "so far" around the proposal.