Ahern says he has no fear of what Lawlor might say

The Taoiseach said he and his colleagues had no fear of what the Dublin West TD, Mr Liam Lawlor, or others might say about them in public.

Mr Ahern was moving a motion calling on Mr Lawlor to cooperate with the courts and the Flood tribunal, or resign his Dail seat. Fine Gael and Labour amendments to the motion declared that Mr Lawlor's position was untenable and that he should voluntarily resign.

Mr Ahern said he did not enjoy the liberty afforded to others in the House to express their opinions freely and sometimes without regard to their consequences for the rights of others.

He had to be careful in the language he chose, the circumstances in which he could speak, and in the timing of anything he said.

"Some commentators and some members of this House have said or implied that the timing and content of the remarks that I have made on the subject matter of this evening's motion are dictated, wholly or partly, by a fear or reluctance of what others, including Deputy Lawlor, might have to say in public about myself and my colleagues.

"I wish to make it clear that I am not in the smallest way inhibited by any such consideration. I am not afraid of what others may or may not say or do in relation to me, and I intend to discharge my office and to express my convictions in a free, forthright and fair way."

Mr Ahern said there were no members of an untouchable caste in the Republic.ail.

"No one is above the law. That is our united determination. Serving taoisigh, opposition leaders, well-known figures from any section of society, respected institutions are publicly accountable in this democracy for the way in which their business is conducted."

By the same token, if no one was above the law, no citizen was beneath the law either, he said.

"Due process and the rule of law must be even-handed, consistent and fair. In moving tonight's motion, it is not my intention to prejudge or to pillory anyone but simply to demonstrate beyond contradiction that this Government and its supporters in this House are unambiguous and forthright in demanding that every citizen, whether or not elected to public office, should comply with his or her obligation under the law in respect of the important inquiries being conducted by the tribunals."

Mr Ahern said they should remind themselves also that people had made judgments about who should and should not represent them in the Dail which were by no means free from controversy but which must be accepted.

"Persons have been elected and re-elected as deputies to this House in circumstances where some member of the public, perhaps even a majority, might have wished for a different outcome."

Mr Ahern said he and the other members of the Government condemned disobedience, non-co-operation and conduct amounting to contempt of the courts and tribunals.

"For us to adopt a different standard would be to scandalise public opinion and to diminish both the rule of law and the standing of democratic representative politics in the eyes of the people.

"While holding this office, I think I have a special duty to make clear that I expect basic standards to be complied with by everyone else who holds public office or who aspires to hold public office."

The Tanaiste, Ms Harney, said that, like the Taoiseach, she hoped to hear from Mr Lawlor that he intended to co-operate with the tribunal.

"That has to be the goal of this House, since we cannot collectively ensure his resignation from the House no matter how much any of us might desire it or feel it would be the honourable course of action for Deputy Lawlor.

"I, and my party colleagues, believe that that would be the honourable thing to do in the circumstances."

She recognised, however, that as far as the House was concerned, its primary objective as a part of the Oireachtas should be to promote compliance by its members and all citizens with the rightful requirements of the tribunals which it had set up.

"So it is appropriate that the resolution today should be constructed as it is, to accord with the requirements set out in the judgment of Mr Justice Smyth. It is also appropriate that the House should express a view today that failure by Deputy Lawlor to comply with the requirements of the tribunal would provide confirmation of the untenability of his position as a member of the House.

"Even then, that is as far as we can go. We cannot force any member to resign."

Ms Harney said the dangers arising, were the Constitution not to prevent the removal of a member by other members of the House, would be evident to all.

"Such a power would be open to abuse, the abuse of a majority position in the House. That said, I am open to examining the scope for broadening the grounds on which the House can discipline members, short of expulsion, for behaviour that falls short of stated standards."

The Fine Gael spokesman on justice, Mr Alan Shatter, said Mr Lawlor had brought his difficulties on his own head.

"He has brazenly defied the motion of this House to establish the Flood tribunal and the House's view that he must co-operate with it, and betrayed the trust of his constituents."

The Labour leader, Mr Ruairi Quinn, said the undisputed facts were that Mr Lawlor had failed to co-operate fully with a tribunal established by the unanimous will of members of the Dail and Seanad, and that he was sentenced to a term of imprisonment for contempt of court as a result of his attitude.

Mr Lawlor, he added, had done significant damage to the Oireachtas and the political system.

"It is the view of the Labour Party that such conduct is incompatible with the standards of accountability legitimately expected of public representatives by those who elect them to office."

The Green TD, Mr John Gormley (Dublin South-East) said the Tanaiste was more active than Mr Lawlor on section 4 planning motions in 1980 and 1981, working closely with the late Sean Walsh. He said she proposed or seconded 12 section 4s with the late Fianna Fail deputy who reportedly had received some of the "biggest political donations from developers at that time".

Referring to reports in the Sunday Business Post, Mr Gormley said that Ms Harney and Mr Lawlor had both jointly seconded a number of section 4 motions by Mr Walsh. He said this was "scandalous" but the media and others seemed to treat the PDs with "kid gloves".

The Government motion relating to Mr Lawlor was carried by 79 votes to 72. Mr Lawlor voted with the Government.

The motion read: "That Dail Eireann is of the opinion that, given the sentence of the High Court, structured as it was to elicit full co-operation within a definite time-frame, and the fact that the judge referred to his membership of Dail Eireann, Deputy Lawlor should now fully meet the requirements of the courts and the tribunal, or that failure to do so within that timeframe would confirm his membership of Dail Eireann to be untenable and that he should voluntarily resign his membership."