Expenses are Minister's responsibility, says Gilmore

THE EXPENSES regime in Fás was the responsibility of the serving Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Labour leader Eamon Gilmore insisted.

He said that a State agency, whether it was Fás or any other agency, was accountable to the relevant minister, who was accountable to the people for the spending of taxpayers' money.

"The Labour Services Act 1987 states specifically that the remuneration and expenses of staff in Fás must be approved by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Minister for Finance," he said.

"This also applies to the board of Fás. This is outlined in section VII of the Act and, again, in the schedule to that Act.

"Furthermore, there is a provision in the legislation that gives the Minister power to give directions to Fás in respect of expenditure on specific items."

Mr Gilmore said there had been three ministers for enterprise, trade and employment during the period in question: Tánaiste Mary Coughlan, who had been in the job a very short time; Minister for Foreign Affairs Michéal Martin and Minister for Health Mary Harney.

Mr Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if a minister had approved the Fás expenses regime.

He added that he had heard the former director general, Rody Molloy, say on RTÉ radio on Monday that the arrangements in place were "entitlements".

He said that if a minister had not approved them, he wanted an explanation from the Taoiseach as to why three ministers were negligent in their duty in overseeing the organisation. Mr Cowen said his understanding was that the rules regarding travel and subsistence in the Civil Service were set out in a circular.

In 1998 the Department of Finance had issued a letter to all departments and offices regarding travel. "The travel and subsistence policy in Fás is a matter, in the first instance, for the board of Fás and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment," he said.

"These are the arrangements that apply. I do not think the deputy is suggesting that the Minister would clear individual expenses of persons in Fás," the Taoiseach said. "If that is the suggestion, I do not think it is a proper governance principle."

Mr Cowen said he did not think that it was right to attribute personal responsibility for the expense sheets to the Minister.

Mr Gilmore insisted that the Taoiseach's answer was not good enough. Telling the taxpayer, who had to pay, about circular letters was not an adequate answer.

"The Act, which was passed by the Oireachtas, the representatives of the people, which set up Fás, says without any doubt or ambiguity that it is the job of the Minister to approve the expenses regime in Fás," he added.

Mr Cowen said the 1987 Act referred to the Ministers for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Finance. The 1998 document covered the regime which applied.

He said that when the Tánaiste, who was abroad, returned to Ireland, the Government would decide what, if any, other matters were required to ensure the full public confidence in those working conscientiously in Fás.