THE PAY rates of everybody in the public purse should be known, Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin told the Dáil.
He said the 10 staff transferred to his department from the National Treasury Management Agency were recruited on a different basis to the public service and had a different pay rate.
“I am not entirely happy but, to be blunt, that is the situation. I would like more transparency.’’
Mr Howlin said the only reason he knew some of their pay rates was because party colleagues asked about them at the Committee of Public Accounts. “That is not a good way to have it.’’
Mr Howlin said he intended writing to Minister for Finance Michael Noonan to determine whether they could at least have transparency.
Mr Howlin was speaking during a debate on the Ministries and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2011, setting up his new department, which passed all stages.
Seán Fleming (FF) said the agency should be brought back into the Department of Finance.
“It is wrong that the pay scales are exorbitant. It is difficult to get figures on them. Some people are probably receiving bonuses as well.’’
Insisting he was not being small-minded, Mr Fleming said it was not good for the public service to have undisclosed pay scales.
“I do not believe for a minute that the calibre of a person in the agency is better than that of a person in the Department of Finance or the Central Bank,’’ he added.
“I do not see why a person should be singled out for special pay rates.’’
Mary Lou McDonald (SF) said she would not second guess the Minister’s assertion that the agency staff seconded to his department were critical in terms of expertise and skill.
However, she was not convinced by Mr Fleming’s argument that the whole set-up should be taken back into the Department of Finance.
Ms McDonald said she would object strongly to any move creating two tiers of staff within the department.
Mattie McGrath (Ind) said no one minded paying good money when they got good work done.
“Like other speakers, however, I want to know what the NTMA staff are doing, because we are locked out of the markets and will be for some time.’’
Mr Fleming said he was pleased action was being taken relating to the salaries and pensions of senior employees in the public service.
He went on to contrast the €400,000 salary to ESB chief executive Pádraig McManus with the €386,000 paid to An Post chief executive Donal Connell before the reductions.
“When my wife asked me why the chief executive of the ESB should get paid more than his counterpart in An Post, I said it is more complicated to generate electricity than to deliver envelopes. She was very angry with my explanation of the Minister’s approach.’’
Mr Fleming said his wife, as a member of the public, did not buy it.
“She argued that the chief executive of the ESB sits at a big desk in an office with staff all around him.
“She asked what the difference is between what he does and what others do, adding that he does not personally put oil or gas into the burners at power stations.’’
Mr Howlin said a method, known as the Hay process, had been used by the Fianna Fáil-led government. It had looked at setting pay levels for the commercial semi-State sector, but also at determining the relativities between the chief executive officers.
He said he had asked those who currently breached the €250,000 threshold to take a voluntary reduction of 15 per cent or achieve the threshold, whichever had the least impact on their salaries.