Breda Fell is the first woman and the first southerner to be elected chair of the ATGWU in Ireland. She tells Padraig Yeates the future of the organisation lies in the recruitment of a new type of worker, many of whom are women

"I don't want to be part of an organisation that is standing still, I have more to do with my time to be honest with you," says Ms Breda Fell with characteristic directness.

Married with three children, the 45-year-old Ms Fell is the first woman to be elected chair of the Amalgamated Transport and General Workers' Union in Ireland. She is also the first southerner.

Traditionally the post has gone north of the border, where two-thirds of the membership of this British-based union work.

Concentrated in traditional rust-belt industries this Irish subsidiary of the British Transport and General Workers' Union has seen membership stagnate in recent years. Ms Fell believes its future lies in making itself more accessible to the growing number of atypical workers, many of them women. It does not lie in raking over the controversy concerning the sacking of the union's high-profile regional secretary Mr Mick O'Reilly and its Northern Ireland organiser Mr Eugene McGlone by T&GWU general secretary Mr Bill Morris.

Ms Fell, a socialist since her teens, would have been seen as a strong supporter of Mr O'Reilly and signed his nomination papers when he applied for the job of Irish regional secretary. She still shares his views on issues such as social partnership. While she sympathises with the personal plight of the two men and accepts their dismissals have "had a serious effect" on the union, she leaves no doubts as to where her loyalties lie in the current row.

"Officially at meetings it cannot be discussed because, in fairness to all the parties, it could prejudice the outcome for both sides. There's no doubt it did have an unsettling effect and I suppose the fact that the process took so long added to the disquiet. But the decision is made and he \ is appealing the decision. He's made that clear."

Asked about the campaign by some of Mr O'Reilly's supporters to gain greater autonomy for Irish members within the union, or even join the new Independent Workers' Union, Ms Fell says "There was no talk about "English"' unions in the past and it shouldn't happen now. I have to say the ATGWU has been a unifying force, given the troubles in the country, and it has managed to maintain unity of the members in the north of Ireland and the Republic through all those years.

"We would hope to continue doing it. The situation [over the dismissals\] is very difficult for all concerned, very difficult, but the day-to-day issues go on. Members need the services of the union and we have to go on giving that."

"I would hate to see divisiveness," she says. "We've always been part of political debate in this country and we've always been part of the left. I think the worst possible thing for us is to have divisiveness.

"We'll have disagreements but I don't think breakaway unions or splinter groups is the way to go. We need the union more than ever."

She rejects the claims by some of Mr O'Reilly's supporters that the ATGWU is too centralised. "We've have great autonomy in the region. We are part of the T&G in Britain but that goes with the territory. That means we have to be very assertive and strong within the union."

She feels much of the dissent voiced is linked to fear of organisational change. The union has just begun a rationalisation programme to sell off some of its smaller premises in the Republic and spend €2.5 million upgrading offices in the main urban centres. A working group has been set up to consult members and staff about the changes.

"We need to know where we want to see ourselves in the future, what facilities we want, what IT systems we need, how to make our offices more accessible to members. Members go to union offices looking for help with problems and we need to respond in a member-friendly way. We haven't been geared to do that."

After working for 15 years in the Waterford Gas Company, almost all of it as a shop steward, she is now a project co-ordinator on a community-based project helping young people with drugs problems. She is also chairwoman of the union's Waterford branch and her own working life reflects changes in union membership over the years.

The old bastions such as the gas company, the docks and Waterford Glass are now frail relics from the past, while the union has grown locally among women and atypical workers in service industries, including health.

Ms Fell played a leading role in organising home helps. At the time the women were paid £2 an hour, often out of petty cash budgets, which allowed health service administrators to deny it was actually wages or that the women were employees.

Eventually test cases were taken by the ATGWU, in conjunction with SIPTU, the women were recognised as employees and pay rates more than doubled.

However, out of the thousands of workers involved throughout the state, only a fraction are unionised.

Ms Fell says the union is "not women-friendly. We have to make changes and adapt to the new workforce out there". She describes existing structures as too rigid and formal. "We need a situation where you can bring people in to have a chat about their problems, not the old row of seats arrangement".

Union attitudes were "sometimes still back in the 1950s cloth cap tradition".

The ATGWU has also become more open to discussing partnership deals at local level, but Ms Fell warns that it is not for turning on the issue of national pay agreements. "We feel partnership hasn't delivered for ordinary people and that's not going to change.

"I was at the last ICTU conference and they scoffed at the union's position, but we were consistent and will continue to be consistent and we believe we can still do best for our members in free collective bargaining.

"That is not to say other issues are not important but I believe we are an important enough voice to be at the table to discuss those issues without being tied to a national pay agreement, and IBEC know that as well as we do."