Developer Mr Michael Bailey said he never lobbied Mr Ray Burke about planning matters over the Murphy lands and never discussed it with him in 1989. Mr Bailey was being asked about a letter of June 8th, 1989, which was sent by him to Mr James Gogarty of JMSE, setting out proposals for discussion about the sale of the Murphy lands.
Mr Desmond O'Neill SC, for the tribunal, said he was concerned with the contacts Mr Bailey had envisaged making at the time he wrote the letter in which he identified "strenuous opposition" from the political sector.
Mr Bailey indicated to the tribunal that he had meant that he would have to lobby politically.
Mr O'Neill asked whether the persons he would be lobbying would be the elected representatives in the area where the lands were situated. Mr Bailey said that would be correct. Asked about his politics, Mr Bailey said he was a member of Fianna Fail at that time.
Mr O'Neill: "Would it involve you lobbying amongst others, Mr Ray Burke?"
Mr Bailey: "No."
Mr O'Neill: "Do you say you ever discussed this matter with Mr Ray Burke in 1989?"
Mr Bailey: "No."
When asked again if he was saying he never discussed the matter with Mr Burke, he said: "Never."
Earlier, Mr O'Neill asked him about a sentence in the letter which stated that a planning application for the Murphy lands should be brought in the name of a company which enjoyed good standing and "good working relationship with planners and the council members".
When asked what relationship he would have had with council members, Mr Bailey said they would know him as being a reputable builder of 15 years experience at that time.
Counsel said the lands were undeveloped and for them to be developed would have attracted political support.
"I would be trying to convince any political people, local county councillors that this was good for their particular area. You'd have a majority sometimes against, and sometimes the majority for.
"It happens in every sector of the economy.
"Whatever is wrong with people going to a county councillor or a TD or anybody to lobby on what your view is? It's the only avenue open in the democratic process," Mr Bailey said.
Mr O'Neill asked if he was saying that the reference to political opposition in the letter was shorthand for the fact that he would have to make political contacts in order to achieve planning permission.
"I would have to speak to councillors in each individual borough and do my best to convince them of the fruits for their area for our project in each individual section."
At that time, there was Dublin County Council and there were not the boroughs as there were now.
They had to convince everybody and, as he said in the letter, there were 78 council members, and they had to lobby every one of them, in Dun Laoghaire and Howth, all around.
"I spent several Saturdays and Sundays going round to them and trying to convince them and ringing them and trying to convince them that was the situation that I believed was the right way forward. I'm still doing it and I don't deny it in front of the tribunal," Mr Bailey said.