Barr Tribunal: The chairman of the tribunal has said he cannot understand why the weapons of the local gardaí at the Abbeylara siege were not taken for ballistic examination after John Carthy was shot. Olivia Kelly reports.
Mr Justice Barr yesterday intervened during questioning of the scene commander Supt Joseph Shelly, to ask why he, or any other senior officer at the scene, including the Assistant Commissioner Mr Tony Hickey, had not directed that the guns be collected for examination.
"I can't understand why no one directed the local guns be examined, thus moving those guns out of the equation."
If this had taken place, the chairman said, he would be able to rely on the report of a ballistics expert and not on Supt Shelly's evidence of what he was told had happened.
Supt Shelly said there was "no question" that any of his men had discharged their weapons. The officer in charge of the local armed gardaí, Sgt Aidan Foley, had told him the only gardaí to fire shots were two members of the Garda Emergency Response Unit and the commander of the ERU, Sgt Gerry Russell, had confirmed this.
"From the first information I got, there was never a question about who had discharged their firearms," Supt Shelly said.
Although only two ERU officers were reported to have fired shots, all of the ERU weapons were collected, the chairman said.
"It is a curious situation that Sgt Russell told you two of his officers were responsible for shooting John Carthy and between them had caused his death and that no other officers had fired - why you did not accept his assurance when you accepted the assurances of your own officer?"
Supt Shelly said the ERU members were "part of the one group" and he felt it was "correct and proper" to collect their weapons. He didn't doubt the word of either officer, "they are both honourable people".
Mr Justice Barr said that while he had drawn no conclusions on the matter, it was possible a local officer could have fired a shot and the cartridge could have been removed from the scene.
Supt Shelly replied: "I assure you there was no such deception. It would not happen and it could not happen."