Q WHAT is the current situation for recognition of the Leaving Cert Vocational Programme (LCVP) link modules by universities in the CAO system for 1999 entry?

Dublin guidance counsellor

AS you probably know, the link modules have been accepted by the ITs for the past few years as a substitute for the sixth subject in the calculation of points for college entry. Now, for the first time, DIT has also agreed to accept the modules for 1999 entry and this is included in its college brochures. This has been welcomed by students and guidance counsellors.

The rating given by the ITs has been as follows: pass 30 points; merit 50 points; distinction 70 points.

Then, in the first week of February, after the CAO closing date of February 1st, the Conference of Heads of Irish Universities (CHIU) decided to accept the link modules for points purposes for a trial period and this means that they will be accepted for entry in 1999. Again a very welcome move by the universities in accepting the LCVP modules as an alternative to the mainstream Leaving Cert.

The level of points awarded will be kept under review and may be adjusted pending the results of a review by the NCCA, the recommendations of the Points Commission, the HEA/CHIU study on completion rates in undergraduate courses; and an assessment of students who gain entry to university using points from the LCVP link modules.

The timing of the acceptance was unfortunate because students doing these modules would have already submitted their CAO forms by the closing date and may indeed have omitted courses in the seven universities because they thought that they would not have points from a sixth subject to add to their scores. Many of these students may have dropped the modules because they did not known that the universities would be accepting them for 1999 entry.

This means that, unless they have another subject, a seventh, they are ineligible for all university degrees and all DIT degrees with the exception of the DIT leisure management (FT104) which requires only five subjects.

The IT degrees also require six subjects except for Limerick IT where five are acceptable with the one exception of LC 024 software development again where six are required.

So, at the end of the day, many of these students are not going to benefit with degree applications in the universities or DIT but, of course, they will be eligible for the vast majority of cert and diploma courses both in DIT and the ITs.

If they are eligible for any university course, they will have to use the change-ofmind facility to include them and do extra research in finding suitable courses at this late stage. But, nevertheless, it's welcome.

What's more difficult to understand is that the universities and the DIT are not awarding the same points at merit and distinction level as the ITs. Why are they giving the same points for a pass but only 40 for a merit instead of the 50 given by ITs and 50 for the distinction instead of the 70?

Either the LCVP is the same module with the same intrinsic value in points or it is not. It would look very strange if a Leaving Cert subject was awarded different scores for the same grade by different institutions. Why is an LCVP module not the same?

Could it be that the universities and DIT are putting their own value on a national exam?

There is a common points scale for entry to CAO colleges with the exception of grade C and upwards in higher maths for one remaining college (UL) and also maths and a number of science subjects for the DIT degree (FT221), electrical/ electronic engineering.

It has taken a lot of time and effort to reach such a common scale and it would be a pity now to start having different points allocated to subjects at the same grades.

What the universities and DIT are saying is that the top grade of distinction at 50 points in the LCVP is the equivalent of a D2 in a higher Leaving Cert or an A2 in the ordinary. In other words, it does not merit an honour.

The LCVP does not qualify as a subject for matriculation purposes for university entry.

Q I'M doing Leaving Cert ordinary level Irish and French and five other subjects at higher level and hope to do a computer science degree. My teacher is advising me to do foundation level in Irish. I need to know how to apply to do foundation Irish. Will colleges accept me if I have only foundation-level Irish? Finally, if I take ordinary level Irish and fail, will I be in a bad position?

- Cork fifth-year

FIRST, you apply in the normal way to do your Leaving Cert foundation Irish which is through your school. This is generally done in the first term well before Christmas of your Leaving Cert year. Second, you would not satisfy the matriculation requirements of any NUI college to do computer science either as a full degree or as a subject within a degree if you do not have Irish at a minimum of grade D in ordinary level because NUI does not accept Foundation level Irish. So, you are excluded from UCC, UCD, NUI Galway and NUI Maynooth for all courses.

You could get around this by applying to other colleges such as TCD, DCU, UL, DIT, Cork IT, Limerick IT, Waterford IT, Athlone IT, Carlow IT, NCI or to private colleges such as Dublin Business School, Griffith, Portobello or LSB, all of which have computer and computer-related degree courses.

All of these courses are through the CAO system and, of course, there is a myriad of other courses in computing in ITs all over the country as well as private colleges at cert/diploma level which are also in the CAO system. None of these will exclude you on the basis of foundation Irish because you will have the six subjects at Leaving Cert for the degrees and five only are generally required for cert and diploma courses. Generally the required subjects are maths and English or Irish.

So, wait until you get the results of your summer exam in fifth year, review the situation with your teacher and fill out the CAO list for degree and cert, diplomas, excluding NUI colleges if you are doing the foundation Irish.

You will still have an excellent choice of degree courses with the back-up of cert and diploma courses. So, even if you decide on the ordinary-level Irish and fail, you will be in a good position.

Queries can be answered only through this column and not by phone or post. Write to Sile Sheehy, Education & Living, The Irish Times, D'Olier Street, Dublin 2 - or by email to education@irish-times.ie