A former director of JMSE, Mr Gabriel Grehan, said that when he telephoned Ms Mary Harney in June 1997, he told her it was rumoured that a payment of £30,000 by Joseph Murphy Structural Engineering to Mr Ray Burke was matched by developers Bovale/Bailey for planning favours.
Ms Harney aid in evidence to the tribunal last May 7th that Mr Grehan told her it was his understanding that the sum was matched by Bovale/Bailey, making a total of £60,000, to secure planning permission for the rezoning of land.
Mr John Gallagher SC, for the tribunal, asked Mr Grehan yesterday if he told Ms Harney it was rumour. Mr Grehan said he did.
Mr Gallagher said Ms Harney had told the tribunal that Mr Grehan contacted her between June 11th and June 26th, 1997, after the last general election and before the formation of the new government, in which she became Tanaiste. His wife, Dr Mary Grehan, was an unsuccessful PD candidate in the election.
Ms Harney said Mr Grehan told her it was his understanding that JMSE had made a payment of £30,000 to Mr Burke in June 1989. Mr Gallagher asked if he told her that. Mr Grehan said he thought he did.
Mr Gallagher said Ms Harney had added that Mr Grehan told her his money had also been matched by a sum from Bovale/Mr Michael Bailey.
Mr Grehan said: "I told her that was a rumour but I wouldn't know that. There was a rumour circulating and I couldn't substantiate it. It was a rumour in the company at the time."
Mr Gallagher said Ms Harney had said that Mr Grehan told her the money was paid to secure planning permission for the rezoning of land. Did he tell her that?
"This was what was being said but I couldn't substantiate it. It was rumour and hearsay at the time," said Mr Grehan.
Ms Harney had said Mr Grehan told her his understanding was that the total amount was £60,000 and when she pressed him on this, because she had heard differently, he told her he had no first-hand knowledge of the matter.
Mr Gallagher asked if he accepted that he told Ms Harney that his understanding was that the sum paid to Mr Burke was £60,000. "From the rumour I was hearing in the company, yes," Mr Grehan said.
Mr Gallagher said he took it that the purpose of phoning Ms Harney was to convey some important information to her.
Mr Grehan said it was to reassure her effectively that these rumours were unsubstantiated. He wanted to reassure her that he had no first-hand knowledge of these events and that there was nothing to substantiate the rumours as far as he was aware.
Mr Gallagher asked if he was reassuring Ms Harney of a number of things, the first being that £30,000 was paid to Mr Burke?
Mr Grehan agreed. He did not know why the money was paid. It was rumoured in the company it was for planning matters.
Mr Gallagher asked if he was saying he told Ms Harney that £30,000 was paid by JMSE to Mr Burke, and that it was rumoured in the company that payment had been matched. Mr Grehan said that was correct.