Mr Charles Haughey said yesterday that although he knew Mr P.V. Doyle was helping him financially in 1983, he could not say why the money went through accounts under Mr Des Traynor's control in Guinness & Mahon.
Mr Haughey said he recollected that Mr Traynor told him Mr Doyle was going to help him financially but he was not aware of the mechanics of it and did not know it was in the form of loans.
Mr John Coughlan SC, counsel for the tribunal, said Mr Doyle took out two loans through G & M, the first in 1983 for £120,000 and the second in 1985 for £50,000. The sums were lodged in Amiens accounts which Mr Traynor controlled in G & M. The sums then went to a G & M account in the names of Mr Harry Boland and Mr Haughey, which the former Taoiseach said he knew nothing about.
Mr Coughlan said Mr Traynor used a vehicle of his own, the Amiens accounts, to transfer the money to accounts in Mr Haughey's name.
He asked if Mr Haughey could think of any reason why that was necessary.
"No," said Mr Haughey.
Mr Coughlan said: "On the face of it, it would look as if the purpose was to put some distance between the accounts in your name and the loan account in Mr Doyle's name."
Mr Haughey said: "I can't say."
Mr Coughlan asked: "Well, can you say that on the face of it it appears to have been for the purpose to obscure the transaction?"
Mr Haughey replied: "I don't think it's fair to ask me that question because I can't say, but let me say that I think that you, investigating on behalf of the tribunal, might be entitled to draw that conclusion."
Mr Coughlan said that according to evidence, after Mr Doyle died in February 1988, Mr Traynor met financiers in the Doyle group, including Mr Doyle's son, David, and told them "there isn't a hope in hell of the loan being paid off" by Mr Haughey.
Mr Coughlan said both loans were cleared on February 26th, 1988. The total sum paid back was £301,138.92, including the interest.
Mr Coughlan asked if he was aware the loans were ultimately repaid out of the Doyle estate. Mr Haughey said he was not.
Counsel asked if, when Mr Traynor informed him that Mr Doyle was helping out with his finances, was it his (Mr Haughey's) belief that it was in the form of a donation?
"I wasn't certain but I certainly wouldn't have thought that it was by way of loan, probably by way of donation or maybe by way of personal loan to Mr Traynor for donation. But I wasn't aware of the background of a bank loan and all that," Mr Haughey said.
He did know that after Mr Doyle's death Mr Traynor was in effect running the financial affairs of the Doyle family. He said to the best of his recollection Mr Traynor did not mention the matter any further after the beginning of the transaction.