Seanad Report: Mr Derek McDowell (Lab) expressed concern that a judge brought before an Oireachtas committee as part of an impeachment process might be afforded less protection than a person accused of stealing a chocolate bar.
Speaking in the debate on the Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) (Amendment) Bill, which was passed, Mr McDowell said that the process envisaged was one which might result in the removal of a judge, with the obvious implications in terms of his or her reputation and livelihood.
"A young fellow down in the District Court who is accused of robbing a bar of chocolate is entitled to sit there and say, 'Listen, you lads, go away and prove I did this'. What we are saying is that if a judge is brought before a committee, that that committee is entitled to ask him, 'Did you do something which may be tantamount to a criminal offence', and be entitled to require an answer from the judge in those circumstances."
Ms Mary Hanafin, Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, said that the House, in its process, would have the right to get the facts from any person who would have them.
"Obviously, the subject of the investigation would be one such person. I understand that the powers of compulsion appear in the statute books in other areas, for example under the company law acts. Any committee being set up under the House would be just receiving and recording factual evidence. So it would not be used in any kind of a biased way in coming back before the Houses of the Oireachtas.
Mr Brian Hayes, Fine Gael leader in the House, said that the issue of the status of evidence was the essential point, and no-one knew the answer. Neither did anyone know how it was going to be decided ultimately.
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The leader of the House, Mrs O'Rourke, agreed that the time had come to make the National Lottery subject to the Freedom of Information Act. "They are dispersing huge amounts of finance. It's a very fine business, but why shouldn't we know more about it.
Mrs O'Rourke was responding to Mr Shane Ross, (Ind) who said that one aspect of the National Lottery which he believed should be looked at was the illegal sale of tickets overseas and their acceptance for the lottery. This practice had been going on for about 15 years, but it had apparently stopped. "I have tried to investigate this and I have come to pretty well a brick wall, because you can't get any information unless you actually talk to the executives involved.
"Things have gone on behind the scenes there which are not clear, but which I think need investigating. I think it's time that it was either subject to the Freedom of Information Act or that we get more transparency from the National Lottery," added Mr Ross.
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It was an astonishing irony that a man like James Joyce who fought for freedom of expression, wanted to reach the widest possible audience and who committed himself so totally against censorship, should now have his works confined and removed from public gaze, and that performance and scholarship should be inhibited by his own estate, Mr David Norris (Ind) said.
Welcoming the Copyright and Related Rights (Amendment) Bill, which was passed, Mr Norris said he had seen this kind of thing before, where a little puppet show for children being performed free of charge had been closed down by the operation of the estate. "It's literally taking lollipops from blind kids. I think it's disgusting."
The legislation is intended to ensure a forthcoming major exhibition of Joyce's work will not be blocked by a copyright dispute.
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Pointing out that since the foundation of the State it had never happened that a judge had been brought before the Houses of the Oireachtas, Mr Brian Lenihan, Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, said it was necessary that steps be taken to ensure that the legislative scaffolding was in place to enable this to happen.
The Child Trafficking and Pornography (Amendment) Bill was passed.