The Taoiseach strongly defended the Government's decentralisation proposals and criticised the thinking behind those who are opposed to them.
He said that it had "more to do with the gombeen days than current times", adding: "I always regret people using these old-fashioned terms. They should try to modernise their thinking."
The Labour leader, Mr Pat Rabbitte, suggested that the academics, Dr Ed Walsh, former president of the University of Limerick, and Prof Michael Bannon, of UCD, who had spoken against the proposals at the Oireachtas Committee on Finance hearings, would not take kindly to being described as "gombeen men and old-fashioned thinkers".
Mr Ahern replied: "Ed Walsh left Dublin like a rocket to get down to Limerick to develop his career, of which I reminded him, and he did it very well."
Mr Rabbitte said he was not sure there were too many assistant secretaries who wanted to get out of Dublin to develop their careers.
"Dr Walsh and Prof Bannon are experts on the subject, and that is the testimony they gave to the committee. It cannot be dismissed with a wave of the hand and a remark about gombeen men, because whatever else one might think about Dr Walsh and Prof Bannon, who have spent a lifetime writing about this issue, one cannot describe them as gombeen men."
The Minister for Finance, Mr Cowen, who was sitting beside Mr Ahern, insisted that the Taoiseach had not used the description about the two men.
Mr Rabbitte said the Taoiseach was not accustomed to getting help from the Minister for Finance, who used to stay in his office.
As the exchanges continued, Mr Cowen said: "There is no sign of Michael D. Higgins today."
Mr Ahern said that Mr Walsh "went to the trouble of talking on this issue and he kindly sent me a speech".
Mr Walsh, he added, had said they should assess and analyse all of the issues carefully and make decisions based on the criteria.
"Ed Walsh successfully moved to Limerick 25 years ago as he believed it was not necessary to centralise all third-level education in just a few places."
Mr Rabbitte said he had come from America and not from Dublin.
"Yes," replied Mr Ahern, "but he moved to Limerick on the basis of decentralisation when he could have gone to any third-level institution in Galway, Cork or Dublin at the time. He is in favour of decentralisation, but he urges caution."
Mr Ahern referred to the growth of Dublin, adding that people should be encouraged to live in the regions and take seriously what the national spatial strategy had said about developing towns, large and small.
He added that whether decentralisation would be completed by May 28th or June 20th 2007 was important, "but if it is completed a short time later, so be it".
"A number of secretaries general, including the secretary general in my Department, have met to ascertain the views on issues that arise in implementing the programme.
"I assure Deputy Rabbitte all those valid issues are being carefully studied. We have also looked at the post-decentralisation Civil Service."
