Ian O'Riordan talks to the opposing managers, Armagh's Joe Kernan and Donegal's Mickey Moran, ahead of Sunday's final in Clones

When the Armagh and Donegal managers sat down for a pre-game talk yesterday it was far from the sort of thumping, loud occasion associated with the Ulster football final. The mood was all precautionary and placid, both men apparently unmoved to add any great hype to Sunday's meeting in Clones.

It may be 12 years since they last met in an Ulster final but any effort to stir up the Armagh-Donegal rivalry was like trying to get water out of rocks. All these men could do was agree to agree.

At least there was a contrast in size. When big Joe Kernan speaks the whole room stops to listen and Dublin's sprawling Bank Of Ireland centre could just about handle his presence.

Kernan admitted when he stepped in as Armagh manager this season (succeeding the Brians, McAlinden and Canavan) he wondered for a while if the county's best years may have been left behind them. "Certainly that thought did enter the head," he said. "But once I got working with the players it was obvious that it wouldn't be the case.

"And I suppose I would have gone to the grave wondering could I have done anything with Armagh, and that was one of the main reasons why I said I had to give it a go. The players had proven themselves over the last two or three years, but sometimes teams have to learn how to lose to learn how to win.

"They have failed at the final stages before but that experience has stuck to them, and they certainly want to go further now. It did hurt them to lose out. But that just means there is more there, because if it didn't hurt then my job would have been impossible coming in."

Since they've started out this summer Armagh have certainly looked like winners. They took championship favourites Tyrone to a replay and then took them apart. Fermanagh never got a chance in the semi-final and now Kernan reckons the best is yet to come.

"We had a fairly settled team at the start of the championship. We used the league to make changes, and the Kieran McGeeney thing (playing him up front) was what everyone hopped on to. But I was lucky I inherited a good bunch of lads, and it's like sometimes a new broom brushes clean. I feel the hunger is as great as ever."

Not that Kernan was overly confident of making an Ulster final: "Well if we'd believed the pundits we certainly wouldn't be here. We believed in ourselves, and I suppose for us playing Tyrone in the first game meant there was no complacency, which turned out to be a good thing."

No surprise then when Donegal manager Mickey Moran jumped to agreement. "Sure Ulster football is a minefield," he said. "We were up against Cavan who we knew were playing very well and that was going to be tight too. All we could do was approach each game one at a time.

"Ulster is so tight now that if any team plays to their maximum they can beat any other team in Ulster. It's that tight, and it's that hard to call."

Donegal have clearly played some tight matches this year (beating Derry by just two points in the semi-final) and that, said Moran, is the big difference from a year ago when he first took over the team. "I suppose this run goes back to last year, when we played some very tight matches and lost by a point or two. This year it's been a nice progression and we've won matches that we wouldn't have won this time last year."

One Donegal player who has responded particularly well this year is Brendan Devenney and Moran doesn't hide the key role he has had to date: "Of course he's a marvellous player. But a lot people miss the point in that he's a fabulous team player. He's very professional in his whole attitude to the game. He eats the proper food, he rests, and does his own training on top of the county training. Sure he's cocky and confident on the pitch, but he's a marvellous player to work with."

What about something controversial though, like some of that criticism landed on the referees lately? "Ah, they're only human like the rest of us," says Kernan. "If they make a mistake sometimes it can cost us a match, but I'm just hoping that we don't notice the referee on Sunday and he just has a good game."

Moran suggests the time-keeping element should be taken away from them; "That would take a lot of pressure off them. I think those in charge of assessing referees could be looked at too, in that it seems to add more pressure to the referee on the day. If they deem him capable of the job then they should let him get on with it, and not have more nooses round his neck."

Attendances have been down a little too, surely that has been disappointing? "Well I suppose people are waiting on the back door," said Kernan, "and the cost was up too, and the World Cup sort of sidetracked everyone. But when you come down to the last eight I think you'll see full houses everywhere."

What about the miserly 5,000 that showed up for the Donegal-Derry match, which clashed with Ireland-Spain at the World Cup? "I didn't even notice," said Moran. "Look, it was one of those things outside our control and we were just totally focused on the game."

Looks that way about Sunday, too.