A vignette played out by a group of Welsh fans a few hours before the famous victory over Italy said much about the progress under manager Mark Hughes.
The fans were going through the likely line-up, with goalkeeper and back four taken as read. So were the front two of Craig Bellamy and John Hartson, and all agreed that Simon Davies, Robbie Savage and Mark Pembridge would fill three of the midfield places on Wednesday night.
So who would take the fourth place? Silence for a moment before the penny dropped. "Of course," said one. "Ryan Giggs. Forgotten about him."
No one, of course, was suggesting that Giggs is any less of a world-class player these days. But a nation that has a history of producing moderate teams anchored by one or two outstanding individuals now prides itself on having a real team unit, with the sum very much greater than the parts.
How else is it possible to explain how a local boy, Danny Gabbidon, 23, of the second division side Cardiff, could hold his own against Alessandro del Piero, one of the world's top strikers? It's because, unlike many England players, he is playing in a set structure he is happy with and understands, and playing for a manager who imbues total confidence in the most junior member of the squad.
What was clear on a passionate night in Cardiff was the belief running through the side, even when their early lead was cancelled out by Del Piero's fortunate free-kick. A couple of years ago Wales would not have recovered from that, and the sudden silence in the stands suggested that the supporters were not quite sure whether the old problem had been eradicated.
They got their answer in the most emphatic manner when Wales applied solid, relentless but sensible pressure in the second half until they were rewarded with a splendid winner.
As well as Wales have performed in a seven-match unbeaten run, they are not a side prone to getting ideas above their station. They play to their strengths, which is to surrender much of the possession to the opposition and defend in numbers, while getting a foot in in midfield. The endgame is for them to make the most of the ball when they get it, and how well they did that against Italy.
In the past it would have taken a touch of genius from Giggs to fashion a win against one of the footballing superpowers. But this was a victory that emanated from a well-used drawing board and, as such, was more deeply satisfying than one achieved by caprice. Such triumphs are much more easily replicated.
Hartson, who gave a master class in leading the line, said: "We didn't nick the game. We gave a controlled performance. We were organised. We knew what we were doing and it was highly satisfying to do so well against their defence because they're the best. I've been saying for over a year that we have turned the corner but no one believes you until you come up with a result like this."
Hughes has been around football's block too many times to believe that he has unearthed the philosophers' stone. What he has done is to make the best of the ability at his disposal - and he is fortunate that it includes emerging talent such as the match-winner Bellamy and winger Davies - while aligning the backroom details to satisfy the needs of a serious team.
"I know I will receive the brickbats," says Hughes, "but from my first match I have tried to instil a team spirit into the squad similar to that which I experienced and benefited from at club level. The manner in which we travel, the dress code, the quality of the training facilities, these are all designed to complement and support the playing side."
Meanwhile, calls for Italy coach Giovanni Trapattoni to resign reached fever pitch after his side's defeat. "Goodbye Trap," ran the headline yesterday in sports daily Corriere dello Sport. Even the usually moderate La Gazzetta dello Sport joined in the chorus for the removal of the 63-year-old coach as it imagined a brighter future for the national team. "Trapattoni's resignation would be welcome, but there's no sign it'll happen," it said.
Guardian Service
