It's a controversial idea: allowing children a voice in public policy decisions. But if the suggestions of a new report are followed, they could soon have an input in everything from childcare to finance, writes Louise East

If you've ever asked a group of children exactly what they want, you'll know the experience can be many things - surreal, maddening, hilarious, intriguing and futile. What it will rarely be is easy. So it sounds like an exercise in frustration to start consulting the country's children on matters of public policy, from childcare to finance. Yet that is exactly what a report published tomorrow, called Hearing Young Voices, hopes will become common practice by 2010.

It's not a pipe dream either, as the authors, Karen McAuley, of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Marian Brattman, of the National Youth Council of Ireland, are backed by a significant level of Government commitment to the idea and practice of consulting children.

This month marks the 10th anniversary of Ireland's ratification of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which states that all children have a right to have their views heard in relation to actions that affect them. Just how seriously the Irish Government is taking both the Convention and the pledge to consult children can be seen in the National Children's Strategy, a wide-ranging, 10-year plan of action launched in 2000. Using nearly identical language to the UN's Convention, it states: "Children will have a voice in matters that affect them and their views will be given due weight in accordance with their age and maturity". Consultation has already started.

The first session of Dáil na nÓg was held last September and the second session is scheduled for next month, while Comhairle na nÓg are being established at a local level. These children's parliaments and councils, set up under the auspices of the children's strategy, are seen as a way of feeding children's concerns directly into public policy-making.

The ISPCC recently established a Children's Consultation Unit, supported by the National Children's Office, to provide support and training for professionals involved in consulting children and young people. Fifteen young people were consulted by the Eastern Health Board's Forum on Youth Homelessness and their views informed the Youth Homelessness Strategy (2001), while in 2001/2002, the National Economic and Social Forum talked with a group of early school leavers, and fed their views into policy recommendations to Government.

But as the report points out, internationally the idea of consulting children is still in its infancy. It's easy to understand why. As adults, we are accustomed to seeing ourselves as decision-makers and children as people about whom decisions are made. Even to those with an open mind, many questions present themselves: just how valid can a child's contribution be on, say, issues of taxation? Logistically, how do you go about gathering children's views? What are the ethical problems involved in quizzing a group of people that are, by their very nature, minors? And really, won't their ideas be, well, a bit childish?

"My own experience of consulting children for the report, indicates that if you ask children questions, they will talk about their daily life, not goals, aims and objectives," says Karen McAuley, who has spent the last year researching and writing the report.

"Children tend to focus on the details rather than the broad brush strokes. That can provide a rich seam of information, or it can simply confirm to you that you're doing the right thing, which can be equally valuable."

McAuley conducted interviews with 10 policy-makers and practitioners, carried out a wide-ranging survey, and most importantly, consulted 62 young people aged between seven and 18.

"We were asking them about very abstract ideas. Basically we were saying, 'we want you to have a say about having a say', and at first their reaction was very much one of, 'what are you on about?' But as we got into discussion, they had very clear ideas and a very coherent understanding of what their own views were. They were also very assertive in their views about what would work and what wouldn't." It soon became clear that learning how to consult children was as much about enabling adults to listen as it was about enabling children to speak.

"We're not used to children talking about this kind of thing. We're accustomed to them saying, 'I'm hungry or happy or tired', not talking about what they want from public policy." Which is not to say that the focus groups of children and young people started coming up with fully-formed proposals; as one voluntary youth worker said, you can't ask a child to do a submission on how hospitals can better cater for the needs of the population, but you can ask them what they'd like to see in a hospital waiting room and what annoys them about waiting rooms.

So, to a certain extent, consulting children is an act of translation, transforming what children say into concrete changes that can be made into national policy.

Still, McAuley feels that too much translation may not necessarily be a good thing. "So much of the language of public policy is, of necessity, very dry and arid. It's all statistics and bullet points and we can forget that each of those statistics represents an individual. Children's voices can be an antidote to that amnesia, a way of rehumanising public policy."

All 10 of the policy-makers interviewed by McAuley, believe children can make a meaningful contribution. Several point out that such consultation could result in policies that are more likely to be used and respected by children.

BOTH ethical and implementation issues are addressed in the report, from issues of consent, to confidentiality and the need for transparency. Some of the findings are unsurprising (younger children felt their parents' approval must be given before they were consulted, while teenagers felt it should not), others are more surprising (while adults tend to assume that creative methods - such as drama, art or games - should be used with children, many of the young participants were quite comfortable with the idea of simply talking). All those consulted were insistent that feedback was essential if children were to have faith in the process.

The research was carried out on behalf of the Open Your Eyes to Child Poverty Initiative, a group of eight organisations (Barnardos, Children's Rights Alliance, Combat Poverty Agency, Focus Ireland, the National Youth Council of Ireland, Pavee Point, People with Disabilities in Ireland and the Society of St Vincent de Paul).

The original aim was to formulate the best methods for consulting children experiencing poverty or other forms of social exclusion. Yet McAuley and Brattman soon realised that while such children might need additional support in consultation, they should not be viewed as a separate category. So they broadened their research to cover all children.

But perhaps the most important thing about the notion of consulting children is that it should not be a token exercise. Children have an unerring ability to detect when they're not being taken seriously and those involved at a policy level are less likely to dismiss the relevance of consultation if it's carried out in a manner which will yield useful and relevant information.

McAuley points out: "Fundamentally, consultation is not about added value or the outcome, it's a right that children already have, that we, as a society and as adults have a duty to safeguard. But it's also has the possibility of being hugely beneficial, if we do it in a meaningful manner."

In their own words . . .

Why should children be consulted? "Adults don't know what's going on in our heads." "Because adults aregone out of times." "Because it's for you. It's not for them."

Why should your parents be asked permission? "Because if I went home then and me ma didn't know where I was I'd get grounded for a month."

Should consultation be confidential? [Yes\] "Because of rumours . . . In [name of town] they're nosy as can be. Everyone knows your business." \ "If you're putting down something belonging to me in the book, I would want my name put down

beside it."

Should consultation take place at school?  [No] "Because you wouldn't want to stand out in front of all the other . . . settled girls . . . Because some people don't get on with settled people and settled people don't like Travellers. It would just end up in a big row."

Should children's views be given more or less weight than adults? "Treat us the same, but in a different way."

Should children get feedback? "We want to know, like, what happens." "What's going to happen to my ideas? Is it just going to be threw away? Is it? . . . Like, what are we saying this for 'cause this isn't going to happen. I'll probably be dying with age when this happens."

Why should children have a voice? "Because if you don't have a voice, you'd have your mouth open all the time, like that." [gaping, silent mouth]