VB: What was the most interesting part of your career?

ND: Two periods really. One was when I was the Irish Representative at the UN when we sat on the Security Council. The other was being Ambassador in London during the Anglo-Irish Agreement negotiations.

VB: In the case of the UN Security Council, you were involved in the controversial position that Ireland took in relation to the Falklands War. What happened then?

ND: There were two periods in relation to the Falklands, the first was when Argentina invaded the Falklands and took it over - and they did so in defiance of an appeal from the UN Security Council on the previous day to both sides not to use force, or anything of that kind. So Ireland joined with nine other countries in a vote which became the basic resolution calling on Argentina to withdraw, condemning what Argentina had done.

Then of course Argentina did not observe the resolution and over the following months the UK mobilised forces and sailed to the South Atlantic to take back the Falklands. In early May, the Belgrano was sunk and the Government here decided that Ireland should use its position on the Security Council to call for a ceasefire, to try to bring an end, or at least to try and head off what was obviously or could well be a fairly bloody war. So at that point we in the Irish Mission to the UN were instructed by the Government to raise the issue in the Security Council. Now that was controversial here but that was the decision, a policy decision by the Government and we were acting on instructions. We did so but we tried to do so in a way that would not contribute further to acrimony but would genuinely try to use the UN mechanism to try to halt what could be a bloody and dangerous war. So, it was a very fraught time, a very difficult time and there has been a lot of controversy about it.

VB: Do you think it was a wise decision?

ND: It is hard to say. There are some people here who would say that it was a wrong decision because it alienated feelings in the United Kingdom at a very difficult time. I remember at the time, we didn't know how large the war was going to be. In fact, it was relatively limited, it was limited to the Falklands [but] could have escalated and gone further. So, I would prefer not to pronounce on the Government's policy here.

VB: Gerry Collins was Minister for Foreign Affairs at the time and Charles Haughey was Taoiseach, but was in fact Minister for Foreign Affairs, so was there a sense that Charlie Haughey was deciding policy almost on his own?

ND: Well, on an issue of that importance, I think the Taoiseach of the day would always have an important role. I suppose as head of Government on a very important policy matter, he was certainly playing in a substantial role but I cannot really say between the two how it worked out.

VB: During the negotiations on the AngloIrish Agreement of 1985, did you have much to do with Margaret Thatcher?

ND: I did, a few times, and I paid a farewell call on her before I left, which was a bit unusual for an ambassador.

VB: What did you make of her?

ND: Well, a formidable person.

VB: Did you like her?

ND: I don't think it was a question of liking, I can't say that I knew her or that. I mean I didn't really know her personally.

VB: Does that mean that you didn't like her?

ND: Well, I wouldn't like to be quoted on that. I was an ambassador and a diplomat.

VB: What did she say to you when you called on her for your farewell visit?

ND: Well, my memory is that it was a rather interesting experience because on the one hand, she was being kind to me in the sense that I was a departing ambassador and she was being courteous to me. On the other hand, that was a year or two after the Anglo-Irish Agreement and she was somewhat disturbed. Her sense was at the time that the security co-operation that she wanted wasn't being given. So, she was interspersing her conversation with courteous remarks to me and at the same time complaints. I was in the odd position: an ambassador paying a farewell call on a Prime Minister, of course wishing to be courteous, but at the same time wishing to explain the Government's position. So, some day when the archives are open, I would like to read the record which was made by her private secretary, Charles Powell, who was present at the meeting.

VB: You became Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs at a sensitive time, when the Garret FitzGerald government was going out of office and Charlie Haughey was returning as Taoiseach. Were you apprehensive?

ND: No. I was apprehensive about becoming Secretary of the Department; it wasn't something I had sought. To be frank about it, there had been some feeling perhaps that the Department had become a bit politicised. I was very concerned in taking over the role and dealing with a new Government to establish absolutely clearly that the Department was a professional foreign service and that we had a national duty to serve whatever Government the people elected and that we would do it honestly and with integrity and advise as best we could whoever the people chose.

VB: Brian Lenihan was Foreign Minister?

ND: Yes, he was.

VB: And he was unwell.

ND: Yes, he became ill. Was it '88? I can't remember exactly the year, but there was a considerable time when he went to the Mayo Clinic in the United States for a liver transplant and the Taoiseach, Mr Haughey, took over the role of Minister for Foreign Affairs during that time. The Department, if you like, was under the direct responsibility of the Taoiseach, who was acting Minister for Foreign Affairs in the absence of the Minister for a very considerable time.

VB: Did you have a fair bit to do with Charlie Haughey then?

ND: Yes.

VB: How did you find him?

ND: I have very considerable respect for his abilities and his intelligence and I would hope that I got on reasonably well with him.

VB: Did you ever have a row with him, any clash with him?

ND: No. I hope that I was honest and spoke out when I felt that things had to be said. I believe he respected that.

VB: Did he resent you speaking out?

ND: No. I believe he accepted and respected it as a kind of, sometimes even a devil's advocate role, which I think he fully accepted. I can't speak for him, but I believe he did.

VB: Did you like him?

ND: Yes. In many respects. I wouldn't always agree with his opinion. I suppose that is understandable but he was certainly a strong and direct person in his decisions. He was a hands-on person.

VB: How did you get on with Gerry Collins (who became Foreign Minister for a second time in 1989)?

ND: Well, maybe you should ask Gerry Collins, but I believe reasonably well. I still see him from time to time. I've seen him on flights to Brussels and so on and I think we got on reasonably well. I wouldn't like to say too much from my side, maybe you should ask him.