AN ARCHITECT for the Quarryvale project has told the Mahon tribunal that he never heard developer Owen O'Callaghan say he paid former taoiseach Bertie Ahern any money.
Broadcaster Eamon Dunphy had told the tribunal that Mr O'Callaghan said in the presence of his architect Ambrose Kelly that Mr Ahern "takes that money and he doesn't do the business".
However, Mr Kelly said yesterday that he never heard Mr O'Callaghan make that comment.
The planning tribunal questioned Mr Kelly as part of the Quarryvale II module, an investigation into allegations of corruption surrounding the rezoning of land on which the Liffey Valley shopping centre is built.
Mr Kelly had produced plans for a stadium development at Neilstown in west Dublin in 1991, the tribunal heard.
The project was to provide an alternative use for land at Neilstown, which was originally zoned for a shopping development, but which was de-zoned when nearby Quarryvale achieved retail zoning.
Mr Kelly said the stadium was the late Liam Lawlor's idea and was a hugely exciting project. A number of people became interested in it, including U2 manager Paul McGuinness, Sam Hammam, then owner and chairman of Wimbledon football club, and Mr Dunphy.
He told the tribunal he went to London with Mr O'Callaghan and Mr Dunphy to see Manchester United play Wimbledon at Selhurst Park.
Afterwards they went back to Mr Hammam's apartment. Mr Dunphy told football stories, he said and the four men had a few cans of beer but no one was over-intoxicated.
"It was really the most entertaining evening that you could have in your life," he said.
Counsel for the tribunal Patricia Dillon SC, said Mr Dunphy had said Mr O'Callaghan had complained: "The thing about Bertie is that he takes the money and doesn't do the business," although he later qualified that by saying the word money was never used.
She asked Mr Kelly if the two men had ever discussed Mr Ahern in his presence.
He said they had not.
"Did Mr O'Callaghan ever indicate to you that he'd made payments to Mr Ahern?" Ms Dillon asked.
"Never," Mr Kelly said. He said however, that Mr O'Callaghan may have said Mr Ahern "mightn't have been a full supporter of the stadium project".
Mr Kelly said he had met Mr Ahern about 10 times.
"I would never have went for a pint with him, I never was in that circle," he said.
Mr Kelly also said former taoiseach Albert Reynolds introduced Chilton O'Connor, Los Angeles-based financiers, to the stadium project and that Mr Reynolds had attended Chilton O'Connor's offices in Los Angeles to discuss the project in September 1993.
He did not know what happened at the Los Angeles meeting, he said, but he believed it was a very positive sign to have a prime minister meeting a financier of a project, even if nothing was agreed.
Ms Dillon also questioned Mr Kelly about a proposal to pay lobbyist Frank Dunlop, Mr Lawlor and himself a bonus of £250,000 each in connection with the stadium project.
Mr Kelly said he was the unlucky person elected to approach Mr O'Callaghan about the bonus. He said he himself was satisfied with the fees he was earning for the work he carried out on the project, but Mr Lawlor felt he was entitled to some bonus since the stadium was his idea.
"You were making an approach on behalf of the lads," Ms Dillon said.
The tribunal heard that the bonus was never paid and the stadium was never developed. However, the Ambrose Kelly Group was paid almost £1.3 million in connection with the Quarryvale and stadium projects from 1991 to 1996.
