Brennan finds himself back at the heart of things

Now heading the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs, Seamus Brennan talks to Mark Hennessy of change, coalitions…

Now heading the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs, Seamus Brennan talks to Mark Hennessy of change, coalitions and the opposition.

Sitting in his offices in Aras Mhic Dhiarmada in Store Street in Dublin, Seamus Brennan can, with a stretch, see Luas trams passing by every few minutes.

Following the September Cabinet reshuffle, it is as close to transport policy as he will get during the remaining part of the Government's life.

Three months on, Brennan has long since stopped sulking. "It took me a couple of weeks to get my head around it. I don't own the Department of Transport.

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"I had a very strong programme, a really strong programme, but I have fully acknowledged to his face and everywhere else the Taoiseach's right to make decisions."

Instead of being a backwater, the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs, charged with disbursing one-third of the Government's entire budget, is now at the heart of things.

"It is obvious that there is more emphasis on the social side of government. I think the Government has been repositioned.

"The tone has probably changed, and it is clear that at the halfway stage the next election has come on to the agenda.

"Obviously what the Taoiseach is doing is trying to position the Government to be in a better electoral position. I think that is his responsibility to do that."

Such political manoeuvrings are both justifiable and necessary, in his eyes: "A big political message came out of the local and European elections.

"Now, whether it is the right political message, or the wrong one, only time will tell, but you couldn't say that there wasn't a political message."

In some analyses, Sinn Féin took Fianna Fáil votes. In others, the gains went to Fine Gael, which would, in his eyes, be far more worrying.

Though the social welfare rises in the Budget were "solid, rather than dramatic", the Minister insists the Government has changed tack.

"Even the way the Minister for Finance went into the House and devoted 40 per cent of his Budget speech to disability. That has to be different," he said.

But does this represent a genuine commitment or cynical politics? "I would have to say that it was the first one, wouldn't I? There is a phrase that I often use, 'You can't take the politics out of politics'.

"You can't expect ministers, prime ministers, anywhere in the world, to pretend that they are not politicians.

"Because a policy represents 'good politics' does not mean that it is morally suspect. Of course, it doesn't.

"You try to do the right things. But I don't go out of my way to make sure that I don't have electoral benefits.

"The Minister for Finance, I am certain, is genuine about disability. I have no doubt but that he is genuine about it. Does it have political benefits for us?

"Yes, of course it does. It shows that the Government is focusing Celtic Tiger resources on disadvantage. Is that good politics or bad politics?

"You wouldn't need to be a graduate to figure that out, but it doesn't mean that we are not genuine.

"In Brian's case I am certain he is because he majored in it in Health."

The Taoiseach drove the Government's image change, though Mr Brennan concedes that Ministers, including himself, were slow to appreciate the need for it.

"Now that the change has been made and the emphasis is on the more social side it is obvious that it doesn't just have political advantages.

"It is also the right thing to do because the Celtic Tiger is so strong. The resources from that tiger have not trickled down.

"What I am not doing is joining the chorus of those who say that there is absolutely no political gain in any of this. That just isn't sensible."

Ireland's hold on the European Presidency in the first six months of last year forced Ministers to take their eyes off the local agenda, he argues.

"I do think that the presidency was an issue for us. It has been for nearly every other government.

"The election came at the end of the presidency. That is no coincidence.

"Twenty years ago if you had a successful presidency your vote would go up. People would say: 'There they are, they are minding the nation around the world'.

"Now, and probably rightly so, people say: 'That's your job. Go and do it. Go do the presidency. But don't forget us guys while you are doing it'."

He feels Sinn Féin, in particular, capitalised. "The presidency made us seem more distant. We were pictured off in Brussels doing things and they were on the ground with their leaflets saying that your benefits need to go up more.

"I don't think it is as complicated as people think. I think it is just a natural process that happens, particularly with the presidency."

If anything, Fine Gael and Labour were "too responsible" during the presidency, he feels.

"I think sometimes Fine Gael are too high-minded for their own good, you know.

"When we had the presidency, they literally almost supported us in the national interest.

"As a raw opposition maybe they should have been on the streets saying, 'These fellows are off wining and dining around Europe. What are they doing about fixing the lamp-posts? What are they doing about welfare?' Sinn Féin did that, and it worked for them."

Fianna Fáil would not have made the same mistake, he concedes. "Well, FF's opposition days are characterised by fairly naked opposition. We jumped on absolutely everything."

Acknowledging that FF would have mercilessly exploited the Taoiseach's apology to the Rev Ian Paisley, if roles had been reversed, he said: "Yes. Sure, FF opposed the Anglo-Irish Agreement.

"We were a fairly ruthless opposition. We are not good in opposition. I take the point. We better stay where we are, hadn't we?" he said laughingly.

Following five years as government chief whip in a previous political incarnation, Mr Brennan has few illusions about coalition formation after the next general election. "Maybe I am getting older and cynical or just practical, but in my view everybody in Leinster House will do business with everybody else if the numbers dictate.

"I lived through five years of numbers. If the numbers are right, things happen. If the numbers are wrong, things don't happen. That used not be the case."

Though confident that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats can win another term, he cautions: "I think it would be very silly for Fianna Fáil to be complacent.

"If the public can take 23 seats off Fine Gael then they can take them off FF. I don't believe that they will, but I think the start of losing them would be to believe that you can't."

The Government's repositioning has made a rainbow coalition less likely since Labour voters will be more inclined to give a Fianna Fáil candidate a preference than before, he believes.

"I would expect Labour voters when they are voting down the ballot to move to FF as much as to FG because they would look to what we are doing."

Though an admirer of the parliamentary skills of the Labour Party leader, Mr Pat Rabbitte, the Minister says his advisers should tell him that "we already know the result of Dáil votes.

"He needs to be out campaigning. He needs to get good at that if he is to succeed.

"Enda Kenny is quite good at it around the country. Bertie is great at it.

"Rabbitte should take a lesson from Bertie and Kenny and get out around the country. Parliamentary performance won't do it for him."

Seamus Brennan's thoughts . . .

On losing the Transport portfolio:

"It took me a couple of weeks to get my head around it. I don't own the Department of Transport."

On the Social, Community and Family Affairs portfolio:

"It is obvious that there is more emphasis on the social side of government. I think the Government has been repositioned."

On the formation of a coalition government after the next election:

"Maybe I am getting older and cynical or just practical, but in my view everybody in Leinster House will do business with everybody else if the numbers dictate."