As Government Chief Whip, Séamus Brennan steered the Government through difficult times. Now he faces another difficult task, writes Mark Hennessy, Political Reporter
Softly spoken, the master of compromise and frequently of fudge, Séamus Brennan, faces a huge task as the Minister for Transport in preparing CIÉ for life in a liberalised world.
Earlier this week, the transport monolith reported grim 2001 results. Losses amounted to €7.8 million and the Government's subsidy has jumped to €245 million. Traffic gridlock is the norm, commuting times the bane of many lives.
Radical surgery is needed for CIÉ and its subsidiary companies.
"I think that what has bedevilled this debate for so long is that everybody knows or thinks that they know, what is wrong, but very few people know how to fix it. We have really got to do some serious talking about fixing it," he says.
For now, Mr Brennan is offering carrot and stick to CIÉ. Fare rises of 20 per cent, as sought by the company, will happen only if new ways are found to do business.
"What I said, I was very serious about. My job is to show a bit of leadership and to make the changes that are needed at structural level," he says.
"What I am saying is very simple. We are investing €5 million a week. We have subsidy in the organisation and the fare application for 20 per cent is there. We simply cannot go on like that."
But CIÉ can map its own future. "I am not setting to break up Dublin Bus unless what replaces it or what runs alongside is practical and works and gives a better service. I am not pursuing an ideological agenda here."
Under the new regime, CIÉ workers could tender for route franchises. "Absolutely, I see no reason at all why in our negotiations we could not build in exciting opportunities for everybody."
Urging speedy agreement, rather than confrontation, he says: "You see, that is not my style. I would prefer to bring everyone to the realisation that there is a better way and that they can all benefit from that better way.
"There is no point in scaring the wits out of families, who have worked in CIÉ for years, into thinking that all of a sudden they are not going to have any jobs. That is not what is going to happen."
Despite CIÉ's poor public image, the Minister prefers to emphasise the positive. "I have to say that in my experience of working with them, there are some very good people, some very good management, some very fine people.
"Indeed, I am conscious that there are families up and down the country that have given their entire lives, sometimes generations of people, to the company. I want to acknowledge that.
"On the plus side, huge investment has gone into the company. New buses everywhere, new rolling stock, new trains, new welded track. In fact, if you go around the city, you'll see the CIÉ buses. It is a modern bus fleet."
The capital investment is in addition to the annual subsidy. "It is separate from the subvention. CIÉ don't pay any of that capital back and they don't pay interest on it."
Beginning in September, the Minister wants negotiations with management and unions on a new blueprint for the future and one that will not be shunted into a siding, as so many have before.
"We have got to talk about liberalisation and how we can manage it. I am interested in managing change, not waking up some morning and finding that everything has changed.
"I would also say - particularly to the people in CIÉ - that I would ask them not to see this kind of talk as a threat, but as an opportunity.
"In every industry, aviation, even broadcasting, when you have a number of players in the field you have more opportunities."
He is intent on securing agreement by the end of the year to remove Iarnród Éireann, which last year lost €6.7 million, from under the CIÉ umbrella.
A break-up will deliver benefits, he argues. "First of all, I think you will get more competition between the three of them." The current umbrella structure often encourages CIÉ to manage rather than increase its traffic, he says.
Separation would mean it could do its "own thing. They could seek to take passengers away from the buses and vice versa and do some marketing and grow the business.
"You could then decide that you will take the train to Galway or the bus to Galway. It is important to grow the market. We have to get more people out of their cars and into public transport. It is a cliché, but it is a true one."
However, the future offered by Mr Brennan means the companies will not only be competing against each other, but also against more private bus operators than now.
However, there will be more passengers. "That has been the experience of all liberalised industries, that the market increases. It is definitely true with taxis. There are 9,000 taxis in Dublin today, compared with 3,000 18 months ago.
"There is clear evidence that an awful lot more people are using taxis because they can get them. You only need to look at the aviation story . . . There are probably twice as many people flying as there were 10 years ago. Look at broadcasting, all the local radio stations. Again, it has grown the listenership and the market."
CIÉ cannot ignore liberalisation.
"If we do nothing, apart from the financial pressures and all that, I don't think that the courts will do nothing. I think the courts won't stand around at the end of the day."
Already, the Government is prevented from subsidising Bus Éireann on long-distance routes where it faces competition from a private operation, in the wake of a legal action taken by private Galway bus company, Nestors.
"I haven't pushed my thinking and I don't have all the answers myself. I have talked to a lot of people. However, how to put flesh on that, how to put a shape on that, I am not certain."
Rejecting suggestions that reforming legislation is years away, he says: "I don't accept that. There is no reason why we can't legislate early next year, particularly on the issue of the separate company for Iarnród.
"If I say that this is going to take two years or that this is going to take four years, then it will because the whole system will say, 'He is giving us two years, so we will talk to him in 18 months time'.
"I am saying that this is very urgent. We must get down to serious talks now in the next few months. By the end of this year, I would expect to have some shape on where we are going.
"I would like to have a meeting of minds about where we are going. We can follow on with the technicalities and the Bills afterwards, but I would like to have a meeting of minds.
"I have no doubt that people reading this or listening to me for the last few days will say, you know, that these are threats here. What I would say to them is that if I fold my tent and go away, things won't stay as they are.
"The pressures I have alluded to will all build up and we will get to a situation one day where we will not be able to manage it because change will be forced on us and if you don't believe me, ask the taxi people. They know about change coming at them. Let's talk about it and make the changes. That is what I am saying to them."