EU: Since it was probably my last interview with Brian Cowen in his role as Foreign Minister, the setting was, however accidental, highly appropriate. When we met at his hotel in midtown Manhattan, where he is attending the UN General Assembly, the question arose: Where to talk? We ended up in the boardroom, writes Deaglán de Bréadún
As it happened, the last time we were both there was in September 2001, about two weeks after the massacre when Mr Cowen gave a press conference for a number of journalists, myself included.
It wasn't just any old press conference. He had come from a tour of the Ground Zero site where the World Trade Centre had been. The normally-ebullient and politically combative Minister was subdued, one might even say stricken, by the experience. Diplomats accompanying him were equally subdued.
Politicians have genetically-short memories, but Mr Cowen still vividly recalls that dramatic visit, when like characters in a Conrad novel, the party made their way by boat, courtesy of the harbour police, to downtown Manhattan and the Ground Zero location.
Their guide and vivid narrator for the tour was none other than Rudolph Giuliani, controversial Mayor of New York who became something of a hero among all shades of the political spectrum because of the fortitude he displayed during the 9-11 attacks.
"It was a hellish scene," Mr Cowen recalls, settling himself down at the head of the boardroom table. "The smoke was still rising, two weeks later." He had worked in that part of the city in his student days so he knew it well. But now it was "very eerie" and he was greatly struck by "the stillness of the place" as a result of the "devastation of a moment almost". He recalls: "When we came back that night, one was very reflective, silenced by the horror of it all."
Like the rest of us, Mr Cowen knew that "things wouldn't be the same" after that. He acknowledges that the international order is still trying to come to terms with how to deal with "asymmetric threats" from fanatical individuals or groups who may be armed only with box-cutters.
The key question for Mr Cowen is: "How do you change that mentality?" He feels it is essential to stem the tide of fundamentalism and extremism and prevent the "triumph of anti-intellectualism above rationalism" in the world. "We have to rehabilitate the concept of compromise."
He has considerable experience at the domestic political level in promoting compromise, given his heavy involvement in the Northern Ireland peace process. It's been a long hard slog for all concerned, but when I spoke to him this week the Minister was optimistic and upbeat about prospects for success.
Smiling, he said: "The current experience is a very good one." He now believes: "The prize is available to us in the sense of everyone on the island of Ireland pursuing politics by exclusively democratic and peaceful means." The republican movement was prepared to make the required moves, in the context of unionism, particularly the Democratic Unionist Party, confirming that they were willing to take part in a power-sharing administrat- ion.
Lapsing into the linguistic code that has developed around the peace process, he says the parties "should be able to find agreement on processes". They were looking at the question of "how do we advance collectivity within the Executive".
Ways of addressing the concerns of the DUP were being explored and he believed solutions could be found.
He is appalled at my suggestion that the one or other of the parties might be tempted to postpone agreement until after the UK elections, to maximise their Westminster seats. It would be a "gross failure" of leadership if there was no agreement. "If the political will is there, we are on the cusp of solving this problem," he says. "I just cannot contemplate or visualise that the outstanding issues that are the subject of continuing discussion can be given a weight commensurate to what's available."
As far as he is concerned: "An opportunity has come for everyone to just go for it."
He pauses and repeats: "Just go for it!" The Irish and British, US, South African and indeed other governments have been able to assist in creating the current atmosphere of compromise in Northern Ireland.
It's a far cry from the position with other trouble-spots, such as Rwanda 10 years ago or Western Sudan today, where the international community frequently seems powerless or unwilling to act.
Mr Cowen says it's time for some new thinking and he's looking forward to the report from the expert panel on UN reform which is expected in early December. I can recall that the Minister was energised and even inspired by Secretary-General Kofi Annan's speech at last year's General Assembly, pointing out that the world community had come to "a fork in the road" and it was time to make some hard choices for the future.
The key issue for Mr Cowen is state sovereignty. "In the interdependent globalised world we live in, this 19th-century idea of state sovereignty as being some national treasure to be hoarded in a safe: it's of no meaning. Sharing sovereignty, getting common approaches, common policies, common actions, that's the best way countries can prosper. That's what the UN now has to do, we have to get a common approach to how we solve the problems of the world."
He is aware of the concerns countries have about being invaded or overridden without due cause and, to avoid such an eventuality, he says "objective criteria" should be worked out and laid down before any humanitarian intervention. He says it may be time to develop the concept of "an international duty to protect" where states are committing, or failing to prevent, gross human rights violations against their own population, such as genocide or ethnic cleansing. But under present international rules, the UN is hindered in its efforts to protect people from being massacred in their own country.
In Sudan, for example, the Janjaweed militia has apparently been killing villagers in Darfur at a rate of 10,000 a month, so that some 60,000 people now lie dead. Finally, the UN Security Council has agreed a resolution providing for a commission to investigate whether genocide is being committed. The Sudanese government has indicated it will seek to implement the demand for the Janjaweed militia to be brought under control.
The Minister welcomes the resolution which he hopes "marks a turning-point", but is "very disappointed" that four council members (Algeria, China, Pakistan and Russia) saw fit to abstain in the vote. He insists "the world is not indifferent to what is happening in Darfur".
On the situation in Iraq, there is a view that Ireland should have publicly urged its friend, the United States, in a loud voice, not to invade in the first place.
Mr Cowen says the Government had made its position "crystal clear". He points out that, regardless of whether Resolution 1441 gave legal sanction to the war or not, Ireland had stated at the Security Council that it could not support military action unless there was a second resolution giving explicit authorisation. Nor has he any regrets about permitting US forces to use Shannon Airport as a transit-point on their way to the Middle East, which he says was in line with long-established policy.
On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he accepts there is injustice in the Occupied Territories but says that nothing justifies suicide bombing, which he regards as "outrageous", and there should be a total Palestinian ceasefire. But he is critical also of what he says is "excessive force" used by Israel and observes: "The continuing settlement policy in the West Bank by the Israeli government will put at risk the prospects of a two-state solution."
On the long-running saga of the three Irish nationals awaiting the result of their appeal in the FARC terrorism case, he met the Colombian Foreign Minister, Ms Carolina Barco, informally this week and expressed the hope that a verdict would emerge at an early date so that there could be "closure" on the issue. "We are looking forward to a review by the prosecutor-general of the evidence to see if an outcome can be found that would bring this to finality."
On EU matters, he refuses to be drawn about his views on the controversial proposal to make adultery illegal in Turkey and its possible impact on Turkish accession. "The European Commission is preparing a report on the issue of Turkish accession. We and our EU partners await that report and will consider it when it becomes available."
He is even more cryptic on the sensitive topic of his own political prospects. Responding to my statement that he was a "hot tip" to become Minister for Finance, he repeated his mantra: "The reason why bookmakers are making huge money is, hot tips don't always win."
But I have rarely seen him in better form or more confident of his brief. He was due to stay at the UN until next week and his speaking slot was on Tuesday afternoon, which would have meant flying back overnight for the crucial Cabinet meeting next day. That's all changed and he is returning home at the weekend, confident that at least he will not have to go jetlagged into his new future.
Deaglán de Bréadún is Foreign Affairs Correspondent of The Irish Times