A recorded conversation between gardaí involved in the investigation into the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier included a reference to a statement having to get “chopped up”, the jury in Ian Bailey’s civil action against the State has heard.
The comment was made by Det Sgt Liam Hogan, now deceased, during a conversation with Det Garda Jim Fitzgerald on June 23rd, 1997, during which both men made a number of references to Mr Bailey.
When Tom Creed SC, asked Chief Supt Thomas Hayes what he believed “chopped up” meant, counsel for the State objected, saying the witness could not give opinion evidence. Mr Justice John Hedigan upheld the objection.
Mr Creed said he would have thought the meaning was obvious and he wondered was “common sense” being “thrown out” the window. The judge said it was for the jury to interpret the meaning.
In the transcript of the recording, Sgt Hogan refers to “looking for threads” and later refers to “your friend . . . writing them stupid f**king statements . . .”
Det Fitzgerald replies: "Yeah, she was doing her f**king best to recall it the night she went over, last Sunday week, to Marie Farrell. "
Sgt Hogan then says: “Yeah, he has to get f**king that statement has to get f**king chopped up anyway”.
Tom Creed SC for Mr Bailey, said, after asking to have the recording replayed, said the “he” mentioned in the sentence appeared to be “she”.
In the transcript, Det Fitzgerald says: Yeah” and Sgt Hogan says: “He’ll get chopped in the box on it like.”
Later in the same recording, Sgt Hogan says: “That statement is very damaging to have in there, I mean it’s not, it’s not, it doesn’t do himself any good anyway.”
He adds: “In the basis like, like here’s this one, its a scheming bitch outside . . . And he’s being f**ked and made look gullible like completely.”
Det Fitzgerald replies: “Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that isn’t true”, laughing as he says that.
Later in the recording, Sgt Hogan says: “Keep going anyway. You’ve no call from Marie since or Christopher or any of . . .” at which points Det Fitzgerald interjects and says “There was a call, yes” and goes on to say there was “a slight problem” to which Sgt Hogan asks: “She doesn’t want it pulled?”
Det Fitzgerald replies: “Not at all, not at all. But we have to wait till it happened before . . . he is trying to make contact.”
Det Fitzgerald later said: “And he went over to her and he said to her, listen, I need to talk to you, is it okay if I call to the shop tomorrow.”
Det Fitzgerald then says: “So this morning at 12, Farrell was sitting there and Farrell says to him, do you know Ian, he says, there was 500 people interviewed in the Mizen peninsula, he says, in relation to this murder he says, that you’re in the equation . . . Farrell had drink.”
Det Fitzgerald goes on to say: “This morning he pulled up with a strange woman, a blondey haired one . . . a reporter, outside the shop . . . and he spoke in the door to Marie and said, I’m slightly busy at the moment, man, mam, madam, I’ll call later.”
Sgt Hogan then says: “They should tape him”.
Sgt Hogan goes on to say: “F**king tape him, Jesus Christ, get him taped, Sure if he puts a proposition to her. F**king brilliant.”
Later, Det Fitzgerald says: “And the Farrells are in the equation so much at this stage, Liam. I know they’re f**king this and that and the other thing but at the same f**king time we need them to use them as well . . . and she’s made two f**king statements and like put it this way, if he did come back and asked her to talk to a reporter about we setting her up or something for a statement, like you’d have the f**ker then . . . between the sightings on the Saturday and the f**king sighting Sunday morning Kealfadda Bridge and f**king Jules and now this (laughing).”
The recording was among a number played during the continuing hearing of Mr Bailey’s action against the Garda Commissioner and State over the investigation into the murder of Ms Toscan du Plantier in 1996. Her body was found near her holiday home at Toormore, Schull, on December 23rd, 1996.
The defendants deny all of Mr Bailey’s claims, including wrongful arrest and conspiracy to manufacture evidence.
Chief Supt Thomas Hayes, now head of the west Cork Garda division, told the court the tape recordings were sought as part of the process of discovering documents for Mr Bailey’s action.
Ten tapes had been discovered related to conversations mainly in 1997 and 1998, they were not in good condition but had been put on CD to try and achieve the best quality possible, he outlined.
In the transcript of the June 23rd conversation, Sgt Hogan also said, “he got your one, you know this Bouniol or whatever she is her maiden name, from the book”.
Sgt Hogan later said: “did he f**king ring her and get the f**king reject”.
Det Fitzgerald replies if there “was only a millionth of a chance that there was a phone call made from a pub to her number, sure, I sure, I mean, the thing about it is this, that I would want it to be checked”.
Sgt Hogan later says: “All public phones in f**king Schull should’ve been checked that night, that’s a bit late now . . . Sure, you’re looking for straws.”
He later says: “We’ll see, have a run at that anyway.”
Earlier, retired Garda John Wilson agreed intelligence about journalist Ian Bailey was recorded on the Garda Pulse system when the Garda investigation into the murder was continuing.
Mr Wilson said he stood over his view the “surveillance” of Mr Bailey was “oppressive” and he disagreed with the State this was not “surveillance” but observation.
Donal Byrne, a news editor with RTÉ, provided five recordings which were played to the jury. These were of news reports concerning Mr Bailey’s first arrest on February 10th, 1997, and second arrest on January 27th, 1998. The recordings, including some material which was not broadcast, showed a media presence outside Bandon garda station on both occasions. Another recording was of an RTÉ television news interview with Mr Bailey on February 11th, 1997, in which he said he was “an innocent man”.
Mr Byrne agreed with Mr O’Higgins the only one of those recordings which identified Mr Bailey by name was his interview with RTÉ.
The case continues.
