The swingeing cuts of 1987 and 1988 made life very difficult for a new Education Minister. "I was a new Minister full of hope and aspiration - and still am, full of hope and aspiration - and the cuts were difficult for me to swallow," Mary O'Rourke recalls. "I then had to sell them.

"I took the decision that I would go out and about and talk to people and explain them. There wasn't a day when I wasn't out talking to schools and various groups."

She takes the same approach in her present job, "speaking to everyone, gathering bits and pieces of information . . . by talking you're on the road to a solution."

O'Rourke remembers the INTO conference of 1988. She stood up to speak and was greeted by a well-orchestrated silence. It's difficult to speak if people are booing and hissing but this was even more disconcerting. But, she managed to turn it around and Senator Joe O'Toole says her handling of the situation may have been her finest moment.

After 1988, the financial constraints eased somewhat. High points of her ministry included the establishment of an educational psychology service on a pilot basis. The psychological service has since been put on a statutory basis. She also introduced the home-school liaison scheme.

Another high was writing the Green Paper, she adds.

"I helped create two new universities - DCU and UL. It was the last piece of legislation put through before the 1989 general election in 1989 - the two colleges have more than fulfilled the remit and mandate they got."

O'Rourke regrets that she didn't tackle the assessment issue but says that Micheal Martin is working on that now.

She loved education. "I loved going to work everyday. I still do. I'd say I'm a work-alcoholic but I enjoy it so much." Being a teacher gave her great insight, she says - she knows how hard teachers work.

"I never worked as hard as when I was facing a class of 35 acquisitive and inquisitive 17-year-olds."