SARKOZY INTERVIEWResponding to a series of written questions put to him by THE IRISH TIMESto mark his visit, France's President Nicolas Sarkozy speaks of his desire to listen and 'to understand the message that the Irish wanted to convey in voting No to a treaty signed by the representatives of the 27 member states'
THE IRISH TIMES - You have been quoted extensively as suggesting that Ireland must vote again on the Lisbon Treaty, yet it would be politically impossible to ask the Irish electorate to vote again on an unchanged Lisbon Treaty. Do you believe the 26 can be persuaded to convene an inter-governmental conference (IGC)* and reopen any of its provisions, and, if not, how can the 26 respond to Irish concerns?
PRESIDENT SARKOZY- I was one of the first European leaders to say publicly that the democratic decision of the Irish people should be respected, and I wanted my first trip in Europe as president-in-office of the Council of the European Union to be a visit to Ireland.
However, we must also respect the democratic choice of the 23 member states that have decided to ratify the treaty.
As president of the European Council, it is my duty to find a solution that brings everyone in the European family back together. To do this, I need to understand the message that the Irish wanted to convey in voting No to a treaty signed by the representatives of the 27 member states.
I am convinced that it was not simply because they wanted to keep the Nice Treaty! I think they actually wanted to express their concerns and criticisms regarding the way in which Europe works. We need to find the right ways to address these concerns and criticisms.
Could this be achieved by convening another inter-governmental conference? Quite frankly, I do not think that Ireland's 26 partners would consider this to be a reasonable solution. The most important thing is to provide genuine responses to the concerns of the Irish. That is why I have come to Dublin: to listen and understand.
IT - Many Irish voters were concerned at the loss of a permanent commissioner. The Lisbon Treaty says that if all member states agree in 2014, each country in the union could remain entitled to a permanent commissioner. Would you support a commitment to continue with 27 commissioners?
PRESIDENT SARKOZY- I would remind you that commissioners are not responsible for defending the interests of their own countries, but are meant to act jointly with their colleagues in the general European interest.
If the Nice Treaty remains in effect, a cap will be put on the number of commissioners as early as next year, 2009. By contrast, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that one commissioner per member state will be retained until 2014 and even allows for some flexibility beyond this point.
By rejecting the Lisbon Treaty, the Irish have risked losing their commissioner in 2009 rather than 2014!
Ultimately, we need to proceed with caution on this issue. The (European) Commission plays an essential role in the workings of Europe. I am not convinced that an overmanned commission could carry out its mission with the necessary efficiency.
However, I do not wish to discount at this point any solution that would be compatible with the treaties, and acceptable to everyone.
IT - In Strasbourg on July 10th, you said that the council and the commission would be ready to propose a solution to Ireland's rejection of the Lisbon Treaty between the October and December council meetings, but you didn't know whether Ireland would be ready. The European Parliament elections will be held in June and a new commission must be appointed in the autumn. In your view, will it be necessary to reach a decision on the legal base for both events before the end of the French presidency, making it necessary to conduct both under Nice rules?
PRESIDENT SARKOZY- I said that I wanted to be able to propose a solution or at least a method during the October or December European Council meeting. Why? Not to impose a timetable on anyone, but simply because Europeans need to know on what basis they will be electing their representatives to the European Parliament.
These elections will be held in June 2009 and need to be organised several months in advance. We cannot ignore this constraint which binds us all: whether the Nice Treaty remains in effect or the Lisbon Treaty enters into force, we must elect a new parliament in June 2009 and appoint a new commission in October of the same year.
We will need to know a little in advance under which legal system, Nice or Lisbon, we will be making these decisions. It is the role of the presidency to prepare to meet these deadlines; naturally we will respect the Irish vote in so doing.
IT - You have said repeatedly that "it is either Lisbon or Nice". Does this mean you exclude the possibility of the other 26 going ahead under Lisbon without Ireland? Aside from the fact that further enlargement is not possible under the Nice Treaty, would continuing under Nice really be so bad?
PRESIDENT SARKOZY- We have been debating institutional issues for over 10 years now. They have been examined in minute detail. It is time to move forward. I do not think that Ireland's 26 partners are willing to engage in a new inter-governmental conference, nor do I think that this is what Europeans really want.
This is why the choice is between Nice and Lisbon. Ongoing deadlock would have consequences for enlargement and the commission because if we stick with Nice, a cap will be put on the commission's numbers as early as next year. My hope is that we will find a solution together that will allow the European family to remain united. I do not want a multi-speed Europe; that can only be a solution of last resort. We are stronger together; Europe needs Ireland and Ireland needs Europe!
IT - Why should such a high priority be placed on creating "L'Europe de la défense" and how does Ireland's military neutrality fit into this vision of Europe?
PRESIDENT SARKOZY- The European Union has been able to guarantee peace, prosperity and democracy on a continent once torn apart and destroyed by wars and dictatorships. It has an essential role to play in the world in the promotion of peace, prosperity and democracy.
Over the past few years the European Union has led military operations and is currently operating in Chad through EUfor, under the command of an Irish general. I do not think that this compromises Ireland's neutrality and do not see how it could, because the decisions in this area are made and will continue to be made unanimously.
The goal is simply to ensure that Europeans work together better and more efficiently, while respecting each other's choices with regard to defence.
*Treaty changes in the EU are negotiated at specially convened inter-governmental conferences (IGC).