THE amount of fundraising TDs have to do has become an embarrassment, the Minister for Health, Mr Michael Noonan, told the tribunal.
Mr Noonan, one of several Government Ministers who gave evidence about receiving donations from Mr Ben Dunne, said it was not the function of TDs to be selling lottery tickets or looking for contributions from the corporate sector.
He said he had long believed that political parties should be funded by the State.
However his Cabinet colleague, Mr Ivan Yates, said he saw nothing wrong with business giving money to political parties. It was the public perception that this was wrong which was undermining the credibility of politics.
The Minister for Defence and the Marine, Mr Sean Barrett, said the way the tribunal was being labelled the "payments to politicians" inquiry was driving business people away from politics.
All three Ministers, along with former Minister Mr Jim Mitchell and ex Fine Gael TD Mr Fintan Coogan, denied being in any way compromised as a result of getting contributions from Mr Dunne.
Mr Noonan said he received £3,900 from Mr Dunne towards expenses during the 1992 election campaign. He was told of the contribution by Mr Michael Lowry.
"I was surprised as I hadn't asked Mr Dunne for anything," the Minister said. He asked Mr Lowry why Mr Dunne was giving him the money and was told, "He has a lot of time for you as a politician." He received the money from Mr Lowry.
Mr Noonan told counsel for the tribunal,
Mr Michael Collins SC, that he had met Mr Dunne two or three times. He had "a memory" of meeting him when he was Minister for Justice when Mr Don Tidey was kidnapped, but was not sure about this.
He was formally introduced to him in 1991. Mr Lowry was giving him a lift one day and had to call to Mr Dunne on business. Mr Lowry invited him in and he and Mr Dunne had a conversation which lasted for five or six minutes.
The next meeting was some time after the 1992 election, when Mr Lowry asked if he had time to accompany him to visit Mr Dunne in the Mater Hospital. The conversation was not about politics and didn't have anything to do with contributions.
He had never met Mr Dunne without being in the company of other people, and never in relation to fundraising of any kind.
The Fine Gael party in Mr Noonan's constituency of Limerick East had also got contributions totalling £3,000 from Mr Dunne. The first payment of £2,000 was made in 1993 and the second, of £1,000 in 1994, Mr Noonan believed, though it was possibly in 1992 and 1993. These were contributions to an annual fundraising dinner which costs £1,000 per table, and there was nothing unusual about them.
The Minister for Agriculture, Mr Yates, said he received £5,000 from Mr Dunne towards the costs of his 1992 election campaign. This amounted to half the total costs of his campaign and was by far the biggest donation he had ever received.
Again the transaction was organised by Mr Lowry. Mr Yates said he had never met Mr Dunne and had not asked for the money. He sent his sister to Dublin to collect the money, which was in cash. He was not sure from whom she collected it but this was organised by Mr Lowry. Next to this the largest personal contribution he received would have been about £500. He told Mr Lowry he was very grateful for the contribution and would like to meet Mr Dunne, which he did some time after the election in the Conrad Hotel in Dublin. Mr Dunne struck him as being a very gregarious, larger than life type. "It was the first time I'd seen a person drinking pints of Heineken with lots of ice in it," he said.
"He didn't give me the impression he was a Fine Gael supporter or was very interested in politics," said the Minister.
The only other time they had met was when he attended the funeral of Mr Dunne's sister, Therese.
Mr Yates told counsel for the tribunal, Mr Denis McCullough SC, that Mr Dunne's contribution, even if it was the largest he ever got, would not buy any extra influence from him.
Mr Barrett said he received a contribution of £1,000 from Mr Dunne during the 1987 election campaign. The donation was organised by a friend of his who was a supporter of Fine Gael in Dun Laoghaire, and he had had no contact with Mr Dunne on the matter.
He had met Mr Dunne socially on a number of occasions, and had attended his sister's funeral. He had also sat with Mrs Margaret Heffernan on the board of Leopardstown Racecourse. He had never had any discussion with Mr Dunne about political matters.
He was not aware of any politician receiving money in return for favours.
It was sad that the tribunal was being referred to in some places as the "payments to politicians" inquiry. "We're actually driving business people away from politics. I don't think people will put up with this for much longer," he added.
A former minister, Mr Jim Mitchell, told the tribunal he was "relieved" when Mr Dunne approached him in a very friendly manner in a pub in Castleknock in, 1987. Mr Mitchell said he was minister for justice when Mr Dunne was kidnapped in 1981 and he had a number of "very difficult" meetings with the family at the time.
However Mr Dunne told him he thought the then government bad handled the kidnapping well. They then talked about other things, "including his admiration for John Bruton".
After a while Mr Dunne produced a cheque for £5,000 and said, "That's for you and John Bruton, for political expenses." It was completely unsolicited, said Mr Mitchell.
He said he traced the cheque only last week, when he was able to supply a date given at the tribunal to his bank. Prior to that both he and Mr Bruton had believed they received this money in 1982.
Mr Fintan Coogan, who served as a Fine Gael TD in Galway from 1982 to 1987, received a contribution of £5,000 from Mr Dunne towards his campaign in 1989. The payment was organised by a mutual friend.
He met Mr Dunne socially on occasion but they never discussed politics.