Mr James Gogarty agreed under cross-examination at the tribunal yesterday that he had wanted a receipt for an alleged bribe to Mr Ray Burke, then Minister for the Environment, at his house. Mr Colm Allen SC, for the Baileys and Bovale Ltd, said that they knew from his evidence that he deliberately, and knowing what he was doing, travelled to the house of Mr Ray Burke, then a member of the government, and corruptly bribed him for the purpose of gaining an advantage. Mr Gogarty said it was correct that he was a party to it.
Mr Allen said he not only said that but he also went a step further. In his affidavit to the tribunal, Mr Gogarty had alleged he had asked Mr Michael Bailey if they would get a receipt for the money and Mr Bailey replied: "Will we fuck!" He was putting it to Mr Gogarty that in 1989, he had been involved in the business for some 50 years, of wide experience.
"Do you seriously ask the tribunal to accept that you and whoever was with you, and we will deal with that in the fullness of time, actually conceived of getting a receipt from a government minister whom you were seeking to bribe and as a result gain an advantage?
"What was he [Burke] going to do, Mr Gogarty? Was he going to sort of turn behind him and take down this bribery and corruption receipt book for Fingal County Council matters and write out a receipt `received from James Gogarty for bribery and corruption £30,000'?"
Mr Gogarty said: "I can't speak for Mr Burke." Mr Allen put it to him that it was an absolute nonsense for him to suggest as he did that there was any question of him looking for a receipt and that there was not any truth or any shred or truth in what he said Mr Bailey had said to him in response to his question about a receipt.
Mr Gogarty said he was telling him what the man said.
Mr Allen asked: "You wanted a receipt for a bribe?" Mr Gogarty said yes. He said that was his evidence.
The chairman said that Fingal County Council did not exist then; it was Dublin County Council. Mr Allen said Mr Bailey would say that in no circumstances did he ever say such a thing but supposing Mr Gogarty did ask it, was it a serious question?
Mr Gogarty said it was a legitimate question.
Was it a serious question, asked Mr Allen. Mr Gogarty said a legitimate question was a serious question. Mr Allen said he had been handed for the first time a copy of the draft affidavit, which he had denied he had signed but did on September 25th.
Mr Gogarty said he did not sign one, he signed the next one. It was a draft statement and subject to correction. He never swore either of them. Mr Allen said the document was dated August 28th and was not signed until September 25th, 1997.
Mr Allen said: "The last line of the first paragraph says: `There was some general chat on the way [to Mr Burke's house] and I [Gogarty] remember saying in a light-hearted way: I suppose we will get a receipt for these monies, and Mr Bailey replied: Will we fuck!' Which I presume wasn't an invitation?" There was loud laughter from the public gallery but Mr Gogarty had not heard the remark.
"What's all the laughing about?" asked Mr Gogarty. Mr Allen said: "I don't know Mr Gogarty. It certainly escapes my attention. "There has been a great deal of laughter in this hall for the last four weeks, six weeks." The account in the statement differed from what he had just told them that it was a serious and legitimate question.
Mr Gogarty said: "It was a legitimate and serious question put in a light-hearted way."