Mr Charles Haughey yesterday rejected as "a false coincidental aspect" the suggestion that there was no financial support forthcoming in the 1970s to help him discharge his debt to the AIB, but all the monies began to become available on the same day he was made Taoiseach.
Mr John Coughlan SC, for the tribunal, said Mr Haughey's financial difficulties persisted for years all through the 1970s. There was no support forthcoming in terms of monies to reduce the indebtedness.
Was help solicited or sought during that period?
Mr Haughey said he would not rule out support. "At that time in the 1970s, you'll remember that I was actually in what they call a political wilderness, and I was engaging in very, very intense political activities, travelling and so on, meetings, to rehabilitate my political position. So that I cannot say at this remove whether I received any support for those particular activities," he said.
Mr Coughlan said: "Well, there were no lodgments to your bank account during this period, anyway, so on the face of it, it would appear that there was no support forthcoming or used to reduce this particular financial difficulty, isn't that correct?
"And you became Taoiseach on December 12th, 1979, and on the same day all of the money began to become available to deal with the AIB indebtedness."
Mr Haughey replied: "Well, that's putting an entirely false coincidental aspect. The point was, as I was becoming Taoiseach I decided that it was, for two reasons, necessary to settle the AIB situation. One was, as you say, for the public perception of it, and secondly, for the pressure being exercised by the AIB. And therefore I asked Des Traynor to enter into discussions with AIB to resolve the matter so that I could go ahead and go into the office of Taoiseach with a clear sheet."
Mr Coughlan put it to him: "It is wholly incredible that this indebtedness had been settled on your behalf by Mr Traynor without you knowing the sources of the funds."
Mr Haughey said: "No, I did not know the sources."
Mr Coughlan asked: "And you believe that it is just coincidental that your elevation to the office of Taoiseach and the monies coming together to get rid of your indebtedness to AIB occurred at or around the same time?"
Mr Haughey: "I think the relationship of all those events to each other is obvious. It was because I was becoming Taoiseach that the overwhelming necessity arose to deal with (the) AIB situation. It was because the necessity arose to deal with the AIB situation that Mr Traynor went to negotiate and deal with the situation."
Mr Coughlan said there could be little doubt that any monies Mr Traynor raised, if they were not by way of loan, were connected with the office he held. Surely it was because of the office he held?
"It was because of the difficulty in which I was rather than the office. There is a distinction," Mr Haughey said.
Mr Coughlan said: "Is it a distinction without a difference, Mr Haughey?" "We'll have to leave it at that," Mr Haughey replied.