FIANNA FÁIL leader Micheál Martin and Labour leader Eamon Gilmore clashed over each party’s plans to deal with the budget deficit during the first television leadership debate on TV3 last night.
Mr Martin accused the Labour leader of “chopping and changing” his figures on reducing Ireland’s €19 billion deficit and “undermining certainty”, but Mr Gilmore said that “what’s undermining certainty and growth is what your Government is doing, changing figures from one month to the next”.
During the debate, Mr Martin acknowledged that the EU-IMF interest rate was likely to be reduced and the European fund enlarged.
Mr Gilmore proposed that pay and pensions for ministers be taken out of the hands of politicians and under the control of an authority such as the Comptroller Auditor General.
At one point, Mr Martin said Labour would change again because it was going into government, and then corrected himself and said “you’re hoping to go into government with the Fine Gael party”.
Mr Gilmore arrived at TV3 at 7.10pm, accompanied by his chief adviser Mark Garrett and Labour’s long-serving press director Tony Heffernan.
Speaking to waiting reporters, who were corralled behind crash barriers outside, Mr Gilmore said he hoped the debate would help voters make up their minds and he was disappointed Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny was not participating.
Mr Martin arrived at 7.35pm, accompanied by Fianna Fáil director of communications Pat McParland and general secretary Seán Dorgan. Mr Martin told reporters he hoped the debate would be constructive. “It’s a pity Enda couldn’t make it,” he said.
When Mr Martin acknowledged that the interest rate on the EU-IMF deal was likely to be reduced and the fund enlarged, he said it would be done with other EU countries, and not unilaterally.
The Labour leader replied that he had never said the cut would be unilateral and he stood over his remarks about the “Frankfurt way” or “Labour’s way”.
Mr Martin insisted that “we must tackle the deficit quickly and the faster we do that the better for the economy. We have to restore confidence and certainty”.
But Mr Gilmore said the Government’s plan was “too tight, too austere and will halt growth”.
Mr Martin told Mr Gilmore that anyone watching “the various utterances you have come with ... will know that you have chopped and changed every three months the way the wind was blowing”.
But Mr Gilmore said no one changed their figures more than Fianna Fáil which changed them every month.
The Labour leader said his party’s proposals for cutting expenditure were fair and balanced.
“We have proposed reductions in public expenditure which are sensible – surgery rather than the kind of butchery you have engaged in.”
On pay and pensions, Mr Gilmore said they should be taken out of the body politic and instead be under the control of a body such as the Comptroller Auditor General because of the level of scandal.
Mr Martin said he was prepared to work to change the pension and payment system and pointed out that he was losing remuneration by staying on in politics.
When Mr Gilmore accused Fianna Fáil of being a “late convert” to political reform and making new proposals after 14 years in Government without accepting change, Mr Martin said he was just as entitled as the Labour leader, who had been in the Dáil for 30 years, to bring out new proposals. “I am the new leader of Fianna Fáil,” he said.
He accused Labour of tinkering with reform. Sitting more days and longer hours would not change politics, he said. Mr Gilmore referred to Mr Martin’s time as minister for health when “you commissioned 40 different reports on the health system. You did more reports than you did reforming.”
But defending his record, Mr Martin said he had changed the HSE system in abolishing the health boards. He claimed Labour’s health proposals had not been properly costed and universal health insurance could cost billions.
At the conclusion of the debate, Mr Martin said that everyone knew that Labour “will not reverse a single cut” the Government had implemented.
