THE former Minister for Health, Mr Howlin, was told on the phone yesterday that a former Secretary of the Department "didn't absolutely shaft" him in evidence to the hepatitis C inquiry.,
A clerk on the tribunal's legal team overheard Mr Howlin's adviser, Dr Tim Collins, speaking to the Minister on a mobile telephone, and reported the conversation to the legal team. The clerk was called to give evidence.
Dr Collins, an adviser to Mr Howlin and a Labour Party by election candidate in Wicklow, later confirmed in evidence that the conversation had taken place.
His conversation with Mr Howlin, now Minister for the Environment, followed testimony by Mr John Hurley, secretary at the Department of Health when Mr Howlin was Minister.
Mr Hurley later told the tribunal he could "not recall" whether he had spoken to Dr Collins at lunchtime yesterday. He thought they "may have said a few words on the stairs". After a brief pause he said: "There may have been pleasantries. I can't recall."
Questioned as to whether he had discussions with Dr Collins before giving evidence to the tribunal, he said there had been contact when he was abroad, but not from Dr Collins. However, "one day last week, going down the steps (of the tribunal building) I would have said about Mr Devitt's evidence, my knowledge was very close to Mr Devitt's, my only difficulty was with the recommendation."
Dr Collins's phone call was overheard by a clerk on the tribunal's legal team, who gave evidence. It concerned evidence on whether a recommendation had been made to Mr Howlin in February 1994 that a tribunal of inquiry be set up to investigate the hepatitis C scandal at a meeting with senior officials.
Mr Howlin and Dr Collins have said no such recommendation was made. The assistant secretary at the Department of Health, Mr Donal Devitt, testified last week he had "expressed strongly" a recommendation that a tribunal be set up. Mr Hurley recalled yesterday that strong cases were made for both a tribunal of inquiry and an Expert Group, but he did not recall either being recommended.
Dr Collins's call to Mr Howlin was overheard by Mr Tom Walsh, a clerk with the tribunal's legal team. He told the tribunal he had heard Dr Collins say "put me through to the Minister." Dr Collins then said to "the person at the other end" that Mr Hurley "didn't absolutely shaft you," and discussed the former secretary's evidence. Mr Walsh said he then heard Dr Collins say he would "be able to get around that" in his own evidence to the tribunal.
In his own testimony, Dr Collins agreed he had made the phone call to the Minister. He said he had been asked to do so by Mr Coughlan, counsel for the Department of Health, when it was realised the tribunal would not be able to hear the Minister's evidence at 2 p.m. He rang to see if Mr Howlin could attend today. The Minister had asked how the evidence had gone.
Dr Collins said the conflict over whether Mr Howlin had not accepted a recommendation to set up a tribunal in February 1994 was "a sensitive issue". It had received a lot of attention in the media, where "quite a number of commentators assume Mr Devitt's is the correct information". Both the Minister and himself were "anxious" to put on record their recollection.
He agreed he used "the colloquial expression" on the phone and was "quite happy" that what he said was that he would "deal" with difficulties in his own evidence. It was "utterly incorrect" of Mr Walsh to say otherwise.
Responding to Mr Rory Brady counsel for the tribunal, he said he had not made any inquiries about what evidence Department of Health officials would be giving. He did have discussions with the Department "about documents various things," but "I haven't asked what evidence they would be giving."
He was "absolutely certain in my mind there were no strong recommendations from either Mr Hurley or Mr Devitt," for a tribunal or Expert Group. Both options "had been given equal weight". A consensus had been arrived at, he said. "Including Mr Devitt?" asked Mr Brady. "I think everyone, was happy with the decision, replied Dr Collins.
