Ahern says he never went looking for funds

The Taoiseach told the Dail he had written thousands of letters over the years seeking money for Fianna Fail, and had done so…

The Taoiseach told the Dail he had written thousands of letters over the years seeking money for Fianna Fail, and had done so "with some success".

However, he was never part of calling somebody into the office and saying: "Cough up - the party is looking for money" or of phoning people for funds.

"I'm sure I probably, even like yourself in various places, collected the odd few pounds along the way. But going out asking for it is an entirely different matter," Mr Ahern said in response to questions from the Fine Gael leader, Mr John Bruton.

Mr Bruton had pointed out that the Taoiseach had stated that he never asked anyone for money.

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During 80 minutes of questions and answers, Mr Ahern confirmed that the search of records would continue and any relevant documents found would be forwarded to the tribunal. And he said if he came across anything where he had misled the House he would correct it publicly.

Mr Pat Rabbitte (Lab, Dublin South West) asked why the Taoiseach had made no comments about the alleged attempts by the EU Commissioner, Mr Padraig Flynn, to influence Mr Tom Gilmartin as a witness at the Flood tribunal.

Mr Ahern said he did not know if that happened so he did not have it in his speech. However, he added that if tribunal witnesses were interfered with "it would be entirely wrong and entirely inappropriate and I'm sure legally wrong as well".

When Mr Rabbitte asked why Mr Sean Sherwin, an official at party headquarters, waited until now to come forward about his apparent knowledge of a £50,000 donation and not between 1989 and 1998, Mr Ahern said as soon as the allegations surfaced in newspapers in September, he made the then general secretary aware of these matters.

Mr Ahern stressed that Mr Sherwin's statement and not his affidavit had been given to the tribunal who had interviewed him and that was to his credit.

Mr Rabbitte pressed him about what answer he had given to a tribunal question asking if deputies were aware of any payment to any public representative in respect of any development to do with any property in the State.

Mr Ahern said he was sure he had said "No" if asked if he knew of anyone receiving money in a fraudulent or corrupt way because he would not have any evidence of that.

Mr Bruton asked, from what he knew of it, if the Taoiseach felt that Mr Gilmartin's contribution to Mr Flynn was appropriate or inappropriate.

Mr Ahern said he had no information as to whether the contribution was actually given. He said if people took contributions up to £50,000 they would be very difficult to explain to the ordinary man or woman in the street and, therefore, would be inappropriate.

When the Taoiseach confirmed that he was shocked about the allegations, Mr Bruton asked him why he did not confide in the Tanaiste. Mr Ahern said he told his programme manager to tell Ms Harney's programme manager that any matters relating to articles in the papers would be dealt with in the legal way.

The Fine Gael leader said when it came to asking Mr Flynn about money, the Taoiseach did not do it directly. "He let someone else do it. He doesn't like to ask him face to face. Why? When it comes to telling the Tanaiste about something that shocked him - isn't it a bit surprising that he didn't even tell the Tanaiste but let her find out about it in the papers?"

Mr Ahern replied to considerable laughter: "When you went out, Deputy Bruton, to collect £50,000 you didn't even know that a colleague had been there to collect £30,000 a short time before."

Mr Trevor Sargent (Greens, Dublin North) asked if he agreed with the Tanaiste's view that Mr Flynn's position was now "impossible" and would he not confront him on that.

The Taoiseach said that Mr Flynn was well aware of his view that it would be helpful if he stated his position. He pointed out that the tribunal would clarify if Mr Flynn received £50,000 and if it was for the party. Those matters would be resolved and dealt with in the tribunal.

Mr Joe Higgins (Socialist, Dublin West) asked if the Taoiseach would use an article of the EU Treaty to bring disciplinary proceedings against Mr Flynn "with his three homes and three pensions" who was the "so-called representative of this State".

Mr Ahern said he had not given consideration to that particular matter and was not likely to do so at this stage.

There was much laughter in the House and smiles but no response from Coalition leaders when Mr Bruton asked "if the Taoiseach is satisfied that he has now told the Tanaiste everything she needs to know".