The Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was told about illegal nursing home charges almost a year before they were eventually uncovered, an Oireachtas Health Committee heard today.
Former Minister of State for Health Ivor Callely today confirmed earlier claims by him that he had told Mr Ahern of the 29-year overcharging scandal during the course of a Dail vote in mid-December 2003.
Mr Callely, who had responsibility for older people at the time, said his conversation with Bertie Ahern took place just days after a crucial Management Advisory Committee [MAC] meeting on the charges in Dublin.
He said he went up to Mr Ahern, who was seated in his chair in the chamber, and that the Taoiseach listened and acknowledged the conversation.
"He listened to what I had to say. He just acknowledged by way of a nod of his head," Mr Callely said. Committee member, Senator Fergal Browne commented that "it was a very flippant way to treat a very serious matter."
Green Party chairman John Gormley asked what day the conversation occurred but Mr Callely could only recollect that it was between the December 16th MAC meeting and before the Dail broke for Christmas.
Members of the Health Committee are hearing submissions from high-ranking politicians and officials into the affair, which could cost the taxpayer up to €2 billion to refund over 300,000 affected patients and their families.
The all-party body will later compile a report on management and administration practices in the department and present it to Government.
The Minister of State with Responsibility for Disabilities and Mental Health Issues, Tim O'Malley, also told the Oireachtas Committee today he recognised the gravity of the matter when he read a briefing note prior to the MAC meeting.
He said he realised immediately that "the matters were grave and had legal, financial and political consequences." However when the MAC meeting decided to formally seek legal advice from the Attorney General on the matter, he said it was "outside our responsibility as junior ministers".
"The ministers weren't jumping up and down and asking why the Attorney General's legal advice hadn't come in," he added.
Mr Callely also pointed out that the long-stay charges issue appeared on the MAC agenda as a list of items headed "For Brief Mention Only". Senator Browne accused Mr O'Malley of being "negligent" for not briefing the incoming Health Minister Mary Harney, his Progressive Democrats colleague.
Ms Harney finally uncovered the illegal charges issue in October last when she was transferred into the department after the Cabinet reshuffle. Senator Browne said to Mr O'Malley: "Shouldn't you have said there was a timebomb ticking, as a party colleague?"
Liz McManus of Labour said: "Ministers are simply walking away as if they were powerless bystanders. It's disturbing."
Mr O'Malley replied: "I take my duties extremely seriously. There was no dereliction of duty on my part."