INTERVIEW GRAHAM HENRY:He's thick-skinned, and has learned to retain a public mask, but foremost he is a proud New Zealander and a proud All Black. Gerry Thornleyreports

BY ANY measure you could make a case for Graham Henry being hailed as the most successful rugby coach of all time. Four NPC titles with Auckland, two Super 12 titles and beaten finalists in three years, five Tri-Nations in seven attempts, seven Bledisloe Cups in a row, two Grand Slam tours and half-way through a third, twice IRB coach of the year, the only man to coach both the Lions and against them – winning the latter series 3-0 with the All Blacks – and presiding over more Tests, 130, with more wins, 99, than anyone.

And today he could become the first coach (and surely the last?) to reach a century of Test wins.

Throughout their history, the All Blacks have a 74 per cent winning ratio, making them the most successful international rugby team of all time. Despite playing the other best sides in the world, South Africa and Australia, three and four times a year, incredibly that ratio has been upped to 85.4 per cent during Henry’s tenure, to go with a ratio of over 90 per cent in his time with Auckland and the Blues.

Yet, in New Zealand, the jury is still not so much out as loitering outside the courthouse with a noose hanging from the nearest tree, for woe betide Henry if the All Blacks don’t win the World Cup, for the first time since 1987, on home soil next year. As he puts it, with a smile: “I’m dead”.

It hardly seems fair.

“That’s the rules, mate,” he smiles again. “At the end of the day the expectation is that the All Blacks win. I think that’s a good expectation for the All Blacks, because I think that brings the best out of people. There’s no hiding, but I think it’s more stimulating than inhibiting. So that’s the way of the world as far as the All Blacks are concerned and I agree with it.”

The man with the most pressurised job in world rugby is speaking straight after returning to the squad’s Conrad Hotel base following training on Thursday afternoon. Relaxed in his tracksuit, he’s content to chat over a table in the busy lobby among the well-heeled National Concert Hall goers and residents while sipping from a bottle of water.

Now 64, the former PE teacher and headmaster has a worldly view of the game. Answers are considered and delivered with clarity, interspersed with his usual dry take on things.

He’s thick-skinned, and the years have taught him to retain a public mask, but first and foremost he is a proud New Zealander and a proud All Black. His hackles rise slightly when discussing what he believes they represent, and especially the haka, while the hurt when you bring up that World Cup quarter-final defeat to France in Cardiff in 2007, when Wayne Barnes and his officials incurred the wrath of a nation, is just as clear.

When asked, earlier in the day, which games stood out, he immediately answered: “One loss does.”

So you ask why he has described it as a particularly bizarre match.

“When you’re in my situation you’ve got to think of the respect the team has in the world, and the All Blacks are respected. We’re not whistlers and we don’t moan about things, we take it on the chin and get on with it. That’s what I think we have to do, and in that particular game we said, ‘right, it was a bizarre game, you roll with the punches and get on with life’. I mean, I could write a book about that game, but what are you going to achieve by it?”

If you recall that Munster reached and lost the finals of the Heineken Cup in 2000 and 2002, and lost semi-finals or quarter-finals every other year until winning in ’06, it was described as their search for their Holy Grail or a Magnificent Obsession. Multiple that emotion by the size of two large islands and 4.4 million people and you have an idea how obsessive New Zealand will become next September and October.

It makes you wonder if a country can want something too much.

Again, Henry sees the positives and draws on Munster as an example. “There’s a huge passion in that part of the world and in Limerick and in Cork for the Munster rugby team, which is stimulating, I’m sure, for the guys involved. So although there is expectation and pressure, they’ve got something unique, and that uniqueness you can’t buy. Like, how many clubs have got that in Europe? Toulouse, maybe?”

You wonder, though, if part of him didn’t want to risk putting himself through worse again should the unthinkable happen, and New Zealand lose a match in the wrong place at the wrong time.

“I didn’t think I’d re-apply, but it was because of the support of the players and the management that I did. And I couldn’t look them in the eye and not stand. Okay, if Robbie (Deans) had got appointed and I didn’t, that’s fine. But I wasn’t going to run away from it.”

No doubt either, such a driven man couldn’t walk away and end his tenure on that note. “I’m ambitious, I guess,” he says with a grin that acknowledges the understatement, before explaining the sea-change in coaching he’s experienced has also kept him re-energised.

“You couldn’t coach the way you did in the 1990s now. They (the players) wouldn’t put up with it.”

He compares his time at Wales, which was only a decade ago, when he coached everything except the set-pieces, with the present.

“Really I’m the vision man, the strategic person. I’ve got some marvellous technical coaches. Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen and Mike Cron and Mick Byrne are superb, and that keeps the longevity and the freshness, and you have to change as the players change.

“When I coached (Grant) Fox and (Sean) Fitzpatrick and (Garry) Whetton and those sort of guys, 10-15 years ago, I was much more authoritarian, but that’s how they grew up, that’s how they were taught at school. And you had examinations in those days and you and to pass and move on.

“Today it’s much more consensus management, with people helping each other. So the team is much more consensus-coached. So if you’re too dictatorial, you just wouldn’t last.”

Ask what makes a good coach and he says a good team, and specifically good players.

“That might sound a wee bit off-handish but I think it’s true. Also, I think the best people you can get around you. The coaching group is strong, we’ve also got a very strong medical team and the manager, Darren Shand, does a fine job, our conditioning team is good and our fitness levels have improved over the last couple of years, and Nic Gill does that. So that’s important.

“Our limiting factor is finance. We fill the stadiums around the world but we don’t get much money, which is not right. We should share the gates. We do attract the crowds, which is pleasing, obviously, and the boys enjoy that and value that, but we don’t get anything for it.”

The New Zealand dollar is stronger, he notes, and in advance of the post-World Cup flight of the All Blacks, he maintains “there’s probably only one player abroad now who would get in the All Blacks.”

Carl Hayman? “Yep, he would have a good show. It’s hard to say, but I would say he’s a world-class player still. Nick Evans, maybe.”

That his players share his desire to reach their Holy Grail is, he feels, a reflection of the All Blacks jersey.

“And a lot of these guys were there in 2007. But the brand is bigger overseas than it is in New Zealand, and probably more respected,” he also notes.

“I think we try and play a style of rugby that’s attractive, which suits the skills sets of the players anyway. We’re much better playing that game than playing a stodgy, kick-chase, forward-orientated set-piece game. We’re proud of the style we play.

“We have got no excuse for wanting to win. We want to win, that’s a very important part of the All Blacks’ culture. We think we play hard, but we play fair; we don’t play dirty, so we pride ourselves on those things.”

The All Blacks attract their share of envy and criticism, and perhaps because they are winning plenty lately the haka has come in for renewed criticism, as it gives an unfair advantage to the All Blacks.

“That’s absolute rubbish. It’s just part of the New Zealand culture. It’s a challenge to the opposition, it’s been part of international rugby for over 100 years. Sad,” he says, witheringly.

You cite the contrasting examples of Lansdowne Road in 2005, when the crowd afforded the haka silence before launching into a rendition of The Fields, to the attempt by other crowds to drown it out with either singing or booing.

“It’s not the people who understand who are making that noise. It’s the people who don’t understand; probably the people who don’t go to rugby very often and don’t understand the culture of the game, and are probably fired up too with a few whiskeys. They don’t’ have an understanding of what it’s all about and you just accept that.”

The second most pressurised job will probably be Richie McCaw’s, as captain. Has Henry coached a better player?

“He’s driven, he’s highly skilled, he’s very brave, he’s very bright; he’s an outstanding footballer. I think he’s probably the best player in the world. We’re lucky that we’ve got outstanding players.

“But I think also the competition within the group and the support of each other helps them develop that way, and that’s pleasing as well.”

Henry did not have the advantage of stepping into the coaching firmament as an ex-All Black. His playing resume is, he says, “very short”. Born, bred and schooled in Christchurch, he played for Christchurch Old Boys, before studying at university in Dunedin and playing for two clubs, Union and University. He returned to Christchurch Old Boys before taking up a teaching position in Auckland and togging out for the university there.

“I’ve always loved the culture of the game. I enjoy the camaraderie and the team thing, people working together to try and produce something that they’re proud of. But really there was an extension of my job and sports coaching was part of that.”

He was playing for Auckland University in pre-season in 1975, having won the provincial championship the year before, when he dislocated his shoulder.

“I actually ran with the ball, which was a silly thing to do,” he says with a self-deprecating smile. “I was a catch, pass, kick and talk player! Running wasn’t part of it. So they asked me to coach the first XV at Auckland Grammar School and I loved it, and have coached every year since 1975.”

In the next six years, the school first team lost four matches out of about 90.

“But that was marvellous to be able to coach in that environment,” he recalls. “You learn how to coach. You had young kids who were just so bloody passionate about playing and loved the game and loved being involved. I had them at 3.30 after school, in the light of the day . . . ah, just great,” he says, looking up to the ceiling as an imaginary sky.

“I’ve been fortunate. I’ve always had bloody good young guys to coach.”

Next up were the university seniors. “On the first day of training six guys turned up. I thought, ‘what the hell am I doing here?’ Anyway, we did okay in the finish. I was an amateur coach and I just loved the involvement and I was ambitious to coach at a higher level.”

After a stint with the Auckland Colts (under-21s) while also a headmaster, he became the Auckland coach in 1992. From ’93 they won four successive NPC titles and the trophies and wins have flowed ever since. Through it all he strives for the most elusive goal of all: perfection.

“I think the number one pleasure is when the side really performs. You get a huge amount of personal satisfaction and the guys obviously get a huge buzz from that, and every now and then you get close to perfection. Every now and then,” he emphasises. “Never. You never get 100 per cent. But sometimes you get close and that’s a huge buzz. When you’ve been part of creating that it’s great.”

The All Blacks’ performance against the Lions in the second Test, when Dan Carter (33 points) and Co defied a typically wild and wet Wellington night with mesmerising rugby, was close.

There have been plenty of other highs in the Tri-Nations and in Paris, not just with All Blacks, but with Wales, who won there in ’99 and ’01, and the Wembley win over England. “Fabulous times and numerous Test matches with the All Blacks that were pretty special.”

He hasn’t a clue what the future has in store for him beyond the World Cup. Like much of his country, he simply daren’t look any farther. “I don’t want to see beyond it,” he admits. “I’ll relax somewhere.”

Ideally with the William Webb Ellis trophy, for his sake? “I’ll either be in New Zealand or the south of France, depending on the result.”

Graham Henry Factfile

Born: June 8th, 1946 (age 64).

Place of birth: Christchurch, New Zealand.

Nickname: Ted.

University: University of Otago, Massey University.

Occupation(s):Secondary school teacher, professional rugby union coach.

Coaching career: 1975-1981: Auckland Grammar School.

1982-1991: Kelston Boys’ High School, Auckland University, Auckland Colts.

1992-1997: Auckland (won NPC ’93-’96).

1996-1998: Blues (won Super 12 ’96, ’97, r/up ’98).

1998-2002: Wales (set record for Wales of 11 wins in a row).

2001: British and Irish Lions (lost series 1-2 to Australia).

2004 : New Zealand (beat Lions 3-0 in ’05, won Tri-Nations in ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’10; completed Grand Slam tour in ’05 and ’08, number one side in ’05, ’06, 08; IRB coach of the year ’05 and ’06).

Test records

New Zealand: Played 89, Won 76, Drew 0, Lost 13. Wales: Played 38, Won 22, Drew 1, Lost 16.

Lions: Played 3, Won 1, Drew 0, Lost 2.

Overall: Played 130, Won 99, Drew 1, Lost 30.