This interview with Denis Hickie was to promote next year's rugby World Cup in England and Wales. We met in the Central Hotel on Exchequer street. It must be a haunt for journalists. A band of musicians are being quizzed on the other side of the Library bar.
There followed some discussion with Hickie, not the band, about the tournament that’s another 13 months away. Rolling back over 2007 didn’t seem relevant anymore. Same goes for revisiting 2011.
But we did anyway.
The Joe Schmidt factor should ensure the tactical and selection errors, so glaring in hindsight, will not reoccur in 2015. Last season's Six Nations told us if Ireland are lucky enough they will be good enough.
“The key to Ireland’s success at the world cup will be a very strong season,” said Hickie, “They have to have a good Six Nations. Usually one is built on the other. That said, we had a fantastic Six Nations in 2007, we were very close to winning the Grand Slam but ultimately had a disastrous World Cup.”
Same as it ever was, then.
‘Very competitive’
“Ireland will be very competitive if they have an injury-free run and two maybe three new players step up to the plate during the Six Nations.”
Does Schmidt take several of the more worrying variables out of the Irish rugby equation?
“Like what?”
Like selection. Like the way Jack McGrath, Marty Moore, Devin Toner and Iain Henderson were exposed to elite Test rugby in 2013/'14.
Like the tactical nous we know Ireland will show under his tutelage. See Twickenham. See Paris.
“I thought our tactical preparation for 2003 was very good and you would have thought the same going into 2007,” said Hickie. “My experience was that the preparation was meticulous, it wasn’t always right, 2007 was a good example of that, but Joe Schmidt you could say does take the variables out of it. He is far and advanced on anything Ireland have had going into a world cup before.
‘Weight of expectation’
“But there is a huge weight of expectation that comes from the success he has had already. There will be a different type of pressure on Ireland this season, which is comparable to the pressure that was on the Ireland team in 2007.
“Ultimately we didn’t live up to those demands but I am utterly convinced the right man is at the helm. Joe has shown the ability to adapt, to bring through players when others are lost to injury and still win a Six Nations championship.”
The value of a Hickie sit down is in its rarity. The 62 times capped winger, between 1997 and 2007, doesn't make a living from the media – he works for a renewable energy company – so three current topics are laid before him: Jonathan Sexton's return, the appointment of his former team mate Simon Easterby as Ireland forwards coach and who he feels is best suited to wear jersey number 13.
Sexton’s return to Dublin in June neatly ties into the actual build-up to the world cup but it is his club, Hickie feels, that will benefit the most.
"I think Leinster realised at the end of last year they would have got further if Johnny was playing. If Leinster want to remain at that top table, which is getting more crowded, they realised they have to have to keep their top players in Ireland.
“He is an investment, not only because he is a match winner but he can also attract foreign players to come and young players will now want to stay around.
‘Lynchpin players’
“Also, from a team perspective, they need players like him to build everything around. Brian (O’Driscoll) and Leo (Cullen) have passed on, Jamie (Heaslip) and Shane (Jennings) and Seán (O’Brien) are there, but you need these lynchpin players. No more so than an outhalf.
“It’s impossible to win the European Cup without a world-class outhalf. Look at Clermont. Their most vulnerable position has been at 10. Having Johnny coming back is fantastic.”
Sexton is currently Ireland’s once in a generation player but Schmidt must fill the vacuum left by the country’s greatest ever performer. Hickie, the winger, profited greatly from O’Driscoll in the eight years they soldiered together.
Presuming everyone is fit, who will nail down number 13 for Ireland this season – Jared Payne, Robbie Henshaw, Gordon D'Arcy or somebody else?
“I would say somebody else. It could be Henshaw. Who knows? Maybe one of the young pretenders. Maybe play a guy out of position. There is an evolution to go through.”
Doesn’t it have to be figured out sooner rather than later?
"Like nine has always been a pivotal position for France, 13 has been very important for Ireland – O'Driscoll, (Brendan) Mullin, (Mike) Gibson. It's so critical from a defensive point of view."
Who would you like to see?
“I’d like to see Robbie Henshaw, to see how he performs. Up to now, it was about keeping the jersey warm, whereas now they are looking for someone to step up and make the jersey their own. Hopefully that will make people relax and bring out a level of performance in excess of what we have seen before.
“It will be fascinating.”
