GAVIN CUMMISKEYtalks to the former Ireland and Greystones scrumhalf who has made a big impression in his adopted country

JOHN ROBBIE gets you with sleep in your eyes. Some will remember the all-too-brief period when he was the Greystones scrumhalf who travelled to South Africa in 1980 as a Lions replacement only to return a year later with Fergus Slattery’s controversial Irish tourists – a decision that cost him his job.

His move to South Africa handed Transvaal one of the few quality scrumhalves, at his peak, ever produced on this island.

Robbie and his wife, Jennie, were quick to build a new life for themselves. Now a naturalised South African, with son Johnny a London-based lawyer and daughter Susan also practising in Johannesburg, the forgotten man of Irish rugby is chattering away from 6am each morning having carved out a respectable niche on South Africa’s Talk Radio 702 over the past 22 years.

“This is home. For 28 years now. I did have some shares in Anglo-Irish bank but they no longer exist. That was the only thing I had overseas.”

Denied a Springbok cap (he sat on the bench four times) by the magnificent Divan Serfontein, the All Blacks 1985 tour being cancelled and injury, his break in radio came as a direct result of rugby.

“Before the Cavaliers Tour of 1986, basically against the All Blacks, I got injured. The radio asked me to do the commentary and in those days it was unheard of to get current guys to do it but I did it and it went down very well.

“A local radio station was looking for sports reporters. They heard me and asked would I like to do it. I did it on a part-time basis until I was finished my rugby. They offered me a full-time job in sport and then they moved to a talk format and as I was getting more politically aware, and I suppose growing up a bit, I moved into the talk radio side.”

A no-nonsense approach quickly became his trademark as some of the premier figures in South African political and sporting life have left the airways bloodied.

The 2000 interview with Minister for Health (1999 to 2008) Dr Mantombazana ‘Manto’ Edmie Tshabalala-Msimang under the previous government of Thabo Mbeki brought the full weight of the ANC down upon him.

The Minister refused to admit HIV is a cause of Aids, instead promoting beetroot and garlic as means of treatment, in a country still shattered by the epidemic. After refusing to answer Robbie’s repetitive questioning (do you accept that HIV causes Aids?) he concluded the interview as follows:

Robbie: Oh go away!

Tshabalala-Msimang: And I am ...

Robbie: I cannot take that rubbish any longer. Can you believe it? I have never in my life heard rubbish. Here we have a situation where the minister of health sends out a document, amongst others, that is looney tunes, that suggests that the Illuminati have conspired with the aliens to bring about Aids to reduce the African population. Now you get the minister on [radio] to explain this and see what happens.

Robbie had been addressing the minister by her first name, giving the ANC the chance to move away from the debate by seeking his apology.

In November 2008, The New York Times reported that due to the Mbeki government’s AIDS denialism, an estimated 365,000 people died in South Africa.

“She ended up in an indefensible position and it was just one of those interviews where you realise you just have somebody of vital issue in the country and you have the person on the spot.

“In a sort of a naïve attempt to make a more informal show I dispensed with all the great titles and formal introductions and, of course, when the minister was in trouble she accused me of being rude by calling her by her first name. She kicked for touch and it ended up a big row.

“But I think most people would say I was the first person to really call her and expose the lunacy that was going on and I’m very proud of that.”

Another one that jumps off the Google search was his tête-à-tête with SA rugby union president Oregon Hoskins when Springbok coach Jake White was forced to include Luke Watson in his squad before the 2007 World Cup. Robbie hammered Hoskins live on air.

“Even though Jake White the coach hadn’t selected him they put him in the side, which goes against every rugby tradition. I raised this with him and he accepted this was crazy but then he lost the plot with a very personal attack on me. I managed to keep my cool. Sadly, I haven’t spoken to him since.

“Jake White didn’t select Watson for rugby reasons and other people felt there was more to it than that. His father is a very famous name (Daniel “Cheeky” Watson) as a white player of the old days who choose to play with the black union. Nowadays, he receives a lot of honour for that, quite rightly.

“Other people would argue some of the things he has done since then are a little controversial. Ya, with everything in South Africa there is a political undertone to it.”

Rugby in so many ways symbolises what was wrong in South Africa during the apartheid era but the pendulum, it can be argued, has swung the other way since.

The Watson issue was eventually sidelined and South Africa won the tournament in Paris.

“I was one of only two journalists, I’m not quite sure why, invited on the team bus with the cup in the pouring rain going through millions of people in Pretoria.

“I think rugby realised no matter what you are doing you have to have a successful team.

“I think there is more realism involved now that the real transformation has to be done at grassroots level.”

With the sporting planet focused on South Africa from now until next year’s soccer World Cup, how much has the country changed since the days of oppression? “When I came here South Africa was the pariah of the world. We just had our fourth election which went through with absolutely no problems. Free and fair. The economy has done remarkably well in recent years.

“It has taken a bit of a knock but compared to other countries prudent financial management hasn’t suffered as much. For any bad story you hear about South Africa there are a thousand good ones. I wouldn’t live anywhere else and consider it the best country in the world by miles.”

We eventually get to talking about the Lions and Robbie gives the Paul O’Connell’s team a (place-kicking) chance. “In the last series the Lions won with goal -kicking and it could come down to those moments, particularly if the Lions go one up.”

We draw a blank when seeking an inside track into potential weaknesses. Outhalf? “Now Butch James is injured flyhalf is a real area of concern but they moved Ruan Pienaar from scrumhalf last year and he was devastating. He had one of the great performances against Australia when South Africa murdered them. Goal-kicking is an issue. He has a patchy record.”

The scrum? “I saw the Sharks frontrow, which will probably be the Springbok frontrow, absolutely destroy the Highlanders in Durban recently and they are supposed to be the best tight five in New Zealand.”

The form of Schalk? “Schalk Burger has had a quiet season, there have been internal problems at the Stormers, but he for me is one of the greatest players not just of this generation but of all time. I imagine a Lions tour would bring out the best in him.”

At least there will be a slight north Wicklow accent to get the tourists out of bed each morning.