WORLD CUP 2002: "Okay, let's crack on, things to do," says Mick McCarthy after striding in the door of the Sampan Oriental suite - apt or what? - at a Dublin Airport hotel, where his would-be inquisitors are studying his just-issued World Cup squad. Lee Carsley or Colin Healy?

The former. Mark Kennedy or Steven Reid? The former. Andy O'Brien or Gary Doherty? The former. In other words, a list of 23 players that was unsurprisingly surprise-free.

Which were the hard calls?

"I'll tell you, but you know the ones, don't you," he says, and he's not wrong. The names: Healy, Reid and, to a lesser extent, in McCarthy's judgment, Doherty. He adds to the "unlucky" list Rory Delap and Nick Colgan, bringing to five the dreaded phone calls he had to make, calls that opened along the lines of, "I'm really sorry about this, but . . ."

"Colin Healy was borderline, Steven Reid too," he says. "Rory Delap came in and did well in the last game. Gary Doherty, Nicky Colgan - although I'd told Nicky that my three 'keepers would be the ones who were involved all along.

"They were the difficult ones, but I said from the start that I can't believe that the players who walked off the pitch six months ago in Tehran suddenly became unwanted and not good enough to travel," he says, with a nod in the direction of Carsley and Kennedy, even if they didn't feature in Tehran. "So I don't think there are too many surprises. But, nevertheless, it's not easy having to tell players that they're not coming."

How did they all take it?

"Disappointed, obviously, but they took it very well, wished me all the best, they want us to do as well as we possibly can. Maybe some expected it, I don't know. Telling them by telephone is a cold way of doing it, but it was the only way it could be done."

Case by case. Carsley v Healy? Was it a tight call leaving Healy out?

"Absolutely, yeah, he's done very, very well," says McCarthy. "But I looked at it and thought, is leaving out a player who's gone through everything with me, been loyal to me, turned up, given his lot, been a terrific squad player - is leaving one of those lads out and bringing somebody else in going to give me a better chance of qualifying for the next round and then progressing further? I didn't think it would."

A victory for loyalty over pragmatism?

"Not at all, no way, it's about ability. Colin's done well in two-and-a-half friendlies, he was excellent in those games, but I think they're different to the big World Cup qualifiers."

Kennedy v Reid? Of all the players who missed out, is Reid entitled to be the most disappointed?

"You'll have to ask them. They're all disappointed, they all wanted to go, they all got a little opportunity right at the very end and if there had been some injuries, and indeed if there are any injuries between now and the end, one or two of those might get an opportunity. I hope for the sake of the players who've been picked that's not the case, but if it is I'd be delighted to have any of those lads I've left out involved with me."

"And what about Gary Doherty," he's asked. "You mentioned loyalty, but Gary Doherty played in six out of the 12 matches at some stage and . . ."

"He had a broken leg," McCarthy interrupts, "he'd just come back from it. I don't think he's fully fit to go to the World Cup, I really don't. We've got plenty of cover with centre backs and I don't particularly regard him as an option up front - I know I've played him there and he's done alright, but I do think that, eventually. his best position will be centre back."

And then the press conference turns in to a symposium on loyalty. "Is loyalty something you learnt, as a player, that was very important to you," he's asked, the question being greeted by half a sigh, half a laugh.

"I think loyalty is very important, but I'm just wondering about the twist on the loyalty angle," he says, detecting that Carsley's selection over Healy is being viewed as a triumph of fidelity over good sense.

"I was playing in the Millwall reserves and I think I'd only had 10 games when I went to the World Cup in 1990, but I was picked by Big Jack because of my performances for Ireland as much as anything. I think the loyalty he showed to players was repaid in spades and it has been for me."

Time for a quick tribute to Steven Carr ("There's a kid who really deserves to be playing on the world stage, because he's an absolute star.") before the revelation that Gary Breen endured an interminable 120- second wait before receiving confirmation that he'd made it in to the squad.

"I rang him and said 'I'm naming the squad tomorrow'. He went, 'Yeah?', and I let him hang for a couple of seconds. Then I said, 'You're in it, it's okay', and he said "Aah, thanks'." And then Breen's beloved probably picked him off the floor.

Speaking of frights. You've named your 23, Mick - have you got your first 11 in mind? "Yes," he says, "and I know who's taking penalties as well." God forbid.